Price Gouging

[redrooster]

RE: Acetone???

Alright, if price gouging is illegal during times of war and natural disaster, then why do the oil companies get away with it on a daily basis. Their normal excuse is that OPEC controls the oil supply so we have to increase as OPEC raises prices.
Well, I don't think OPEC owns the rigs in the Gulf so now they use the excuse that the increase is because of damage to American rigs and refineries.
Just how much of our oil is imported vs. produced in the U.S?

 

[90Xjay]

RE: Foreign Financial Aid

Crude oil is traded on the stock exchange, it is bought and sold as a commodity.

Gasoline futures trading, is treated much the same.

Prices are determined by the greed of investors in the stock market.
The only way, really that you see price gouging is at the regional levels, after the crude is refined, like at the refinery, distributor, and dealer level.

Even as gas prices have risen from the 1.50 range a year and half ago to the 2.40 range, even before Katrina, nobody seemed to care. Everybody kept driving right along, at least the US demand levels were still higher that this time last year, so do you think that the prices are going to go down, when demand is up? The price will go higher and higher until the demand drops.

Add to that, the economies in China and India are adding a tremendous strain to the world supply or crude, they are outbidding(willing to pay more) to keep their supply steady, and what do you think that does to the prices?

We have listened to the tree huggers and not became more self reliant, built more refineries, drilled for oil in ANWAR. Even when the gov't required alternative fuel cars, most people don't want them and sales are so-so.

If you think we are being gouged, you guessed right. Thank an enviornmentalist wacko.

 

[TwistedCU]

Oh it's gouging alright: http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/08/31/D8CASUG88.html

Crude oil prices fell in jittery trading Wednesday even after the U.S. government said it would loan oil to refiners struggling in the wake of Hurricane Katrina to keep production of gasoline and other fuels steady. But wholesale and retail gasoline prices leaped higher nationwide.

Rat bastards

 

[redrooster]

Well, I'm all about protecting the environment...to a point. It's kind of like this, if you have to kill a cow to eat then by all means kill it. If you have to cut some trees to be able to get Crude so people can drive to work, then cut them. I guarantee the Alaskan wildlife will move out of the way for a pipeline. We have oil wells scattered all over S. Alabama and the deer and turkeys have never said a word.

"Prices are determined by the greed of investors in the stock market.
The only way, really that you see price gouging is at the regional levels, after the crude is refined, like at the refinery, distributor, and dealer level."

I don't really understand what you mean. OPEC is at the first rung on the ladder and controls the price of barrels of crude which are hitting an all time high. I do understand that whatever US laws we have on price gouging will not apply to foreign associations like OPEC.

 

[mud4feet]

...............If you think we are being gouged, you guessed right. Thank an enviornmentalist wacko.

I gotta disagree, 90. Beware the enemy, 'cause it is US!!!! Today, the panic set in here in Western North Carolina. I've never seen so many people so anxious to buy $3.10/gal gasoline. And I have to drive to Hickory tomorrow (220 mi roundtrip). Hope I can find some gas!?! :shock:


We are a strange species.

 

[jules]

Hey Guys! I've been kinda scarce lately. Too much going on and not enough time to "Jeep".

I had actually come to appreciate the prices we were/are paying for gas. After recently spending a good amount of time Germany [1 Euro per Liter or about $5 per Gallon], I found we are not all that bad off. I couldn't even imagine driving my vehicles over there.

To make matters worse, I just bought a big Conversion Van for cruising. The van (13 mpg) gets better mileage than my ZJ (11 mpg), but the shear size of the thing makes me feel like I'm driving a really bad gas hog.

I topped it off last night at $2.59 a Gallon when I read a few posts about the possible price increases. This morning, the same station was selling gas at $2.89 a Gallon (12 hours later!!). The 35 gallon tank in my "Tank" is gonna cost me over $100 to fill up next time. I keep telling myself, you gotta pay to play and it helps me not get upset that I bought such a large vehicle. Plus my kids love it!

I just hope the pricing stabilizes soon. The decision to release the national oil reserves should help a little. I just feel paying over $3 a gallon is a little scary.

Remember back in the late 70's and early 80's (I know, my age is showing) when the VW Rabbit was getting 35-40mpg. Doesn't it seem technology went nowhere in releasing a car that can get over 60mpg? If we were getting 40mpg back then, we should at least be getting 60 now!

 

[90Xjay]

Super Yota

90Xjay wrote:
...............If you think we are being gouged, you guessed right. Thank an enviornmentalist wacko.


I gotta disagree, 90. Beware the enemy, 'cause it is US!!!! Today, the panic set in here in Western North Carolina. I've never seen so many people so anxious to buy $3.10/gal gasoline. And I have to drive to Hickory tomorrow (220 mi roundtrip). Hope I can find some gas!?!


We are a strange species.

your right Mud, panic buying increases demand.

Our fuel supply changes hands many times between being crude and gas or diesel. I know that some stations are jacking with prices, esp the independents. But there is alot of confusion going on in the industry, suppliers are telling the dealers they may not get any more fuel for awhile and the wholesale prices(the price the station pays) is all over the scale.
Just on Tuesday alone, my company got THREE notices of price changes in one day from one of our local refiners. We don't sell to or operate gas stations, our fuel is commercial use, but it was hard for us to keep track of how much we were paying for each load, and we had so much panic buying going on we could not do it all with 3 drivers going full steam.

We shop around each time we order any buy from one of 3 or 4 source points, and some of them will give you a price and when you send the truck to load it, send the driver back and say your over your allocation limit and can't buy again until tommorrow.

Everybody loved the cheap gas we had for several years back in the late 90's. The arabs upped production, lowered the price and flooded the market with cheap crude. Many people in my area were laid off, because crude was $9 per barrell. That is what is cost at the time, just to pump it from the ground. So after most of the wells were shut down and plugged off(EPA Regs require that) and the oil field workers laid off working at WalMart, the Arabs cut production and raised the prices. America, now importing way more than we make domestic is dependent upon foreign oil and we are forced to buy it. This has been trouble in the making for a decade and we have sit back and let it happen again, like back in the 70's.

 

[LadyJeepFreak]

RE: Re: RE: crank position sensor

I have no comment but I would like to say that I'm in the open market for a..................................


Sugar Daddy. Any takers? LOL :lol:

 

[90Xjay]

LadyJeepFreak wrote:

I have no comment but I would like to say that I'm in the open market for a..................................


Sugar Daddy. Any takers? LOL

OK, LJF, you coaxed me right in.

 

[mud4feet]

I have no comment but I would like to say that I'm in the open market for a..................................


Sugar Daddy. Any takers? LOL :lol:

HAHAHAHA!!!!!! Sorry, Lady, I'm taken (and mudwoman would be REALLY pissed!!!) :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[JeepMonkey]

RE: Re: RE: Fantasy Football Time!!

Remember back in the late 70's and early 80's (I know, my age is showing) when the VW Rabbit was getting 35-40mpg. Doesn't it seem technology went nowhere in releasing a car that can get over 60mpg? If we were getting 40mpg back then, we should at least be getting 60 now!

EXACTLY!!!! If the automotive technology had advanced as far in the last 20 years as much as the computer technology we'd all be driving cars that got at least 60mpg. If not, much better!

 

[southtj]

Bill O'Reiley said that it costs about $4 a barrel to process and produce a barrel of oil. They are selling it for $70! Do the math. I understand the whole supply and demand thing but that's rediculous.

 

[LadyJeepFreak]

LOL @ 90 and Mud!! Thank you for sharing my humor!! Gotta Laugh somedays or you'd cry right?

Lady

 

[LadyJeepFreak]

NEW YORK (CNN/Money) - Consumers can expect retail gas prices to rise to $4 a gallon soon, but whether they stay there depends on the long-term damage to oil facilities from Hurricane Katrina, oil and gas analysts said Wednesday.

"There's no question gas will hit $4 a gallon," Ben Brockwell, director of pricing at the Oil Price Information Service, said. "The question is how high will it go and how long will it last?"

OPIS tracks wholesale and retail oil prices and provides pricing information for AAA's daily reports on fuel prices.

Brockwell said with gasoline prices now exceeding $3 a gallon before even reaching the wholesale level, it "doesn't take a genius" to expect retail prices to hit $4 a gallon soon.

"Consumers haven't seen the worst of it yet," Brockwell said.

He expects consumers in the Southeast and Northeast to be pinched first, following the impact of Hurricane Katrina on the Gulf Coast region.

Katrina pressures gas supplies
Katrina forced operators to close more than a tenth of the country's refining capacity and a quarter of its oil production, which sent gasoline prices surging.

Two major pipelines that supply gasoline to key terminals and distribution centers within the eastern U.S. were shut down due to power outages caused by the storm. (Video of Energy Secretary Samuel Bodman discussing U.S. plans to tap strategic oil reserve to help refiners -- 4:16. Click here to watch.)

Colonial Pipeline said it hopes to be back in partial operation soon, while the date of Plantation Pipeline's restart is not clear. Each day the pipelines are closed, supplies get backlogged and distribution centers must rely on reserves.

"With this kind of hiccup in refinery capacity, in stretched markets like California, you could see over $4 a gallon in gas," Evan Smith, an analyst at U.S. Global Investors, told CNN/Money.

While it's still too early to fully assess the damage caused by Katrina, efforts to build up inventories of crude oil, natural gas and other products like gasoline will be set back by the storm, according to Nariman Behravesh, chief economist at Global Insight.

In a research note, Behravesh laid out a worst-case scenario that puts average prices for regular unleaded gasoline at about $3.50 a gallon for the next four to six months.

"The impact on consumer spending in such a scenario would be very dramatic, cutting the growth rate by as much as 3 percent and pushing real GDP growth in the fourth quarter closer to zero," he wrote.

In a best-case scenario, he forecast retail pump prices to peak at $3 a gallon for a couple of months, but then fall back to around $2.50 by year-end.

The nationwide average price for a gallon of regular unleaded hit a fresh high of $2.619 Wednesday, according to AAA, the largest U.S. motorist organization, formerly known as the American Automobile Association.

Average gasoline prices have gained 40 percent in the last year.

Prices for crude oil are also up sharply and are currently hovering near record highs just under $70 a barrel.

 

[TwistedCU]

U Joint/Driveshaft Update

I have posted before (I think) that a large factor in the high costs of fuel in the USA is the fact that every state has different regulations on fuel, meaning different formulas need to be made which drives up production costs. If they could all get on one page, it would cost less to make.

Another factor is that our government(s) tax the snot out of it. Ending or suspending that definately could lower the cost.

The supply and demand have an effect, of course, that's basic economics. Problem is the supply is regulated and that means it is all a control game. Supply and demand does not work as a free market because it is not a free market. It is a monopoly.


Hell yeah drill in Alaska! The caribou will survive and unfortunately so will the likes of greenpeace.

 

[mud4feet]

OK....for the last time!!.......ALTERNATIVE FUELS!!!!!! They've got the oil - we don't (not near as much, anyway, and once it's gone, it's gone!!). This is an old sumbitch telling you young sumbitches that this is only the beginning!!!! It'll only get worse, trust me. What I witnessed today I haven't seen in 30 years.....and back then we were bitchin' 'cause it went over $.50/gal!!!!!! As long as we depend upon OIL, it will NEVER end.......only get worse.

 

[felix_santi]

RE: low brake pedal after beefy axle swap

Hey Guys!

I had actually come to appreciate the prices we were/are paying for gas. After recently spending a good amount of time Germany [1 Euro per Liter or about $5 per Gallon], I found we are not all that bad off. I couldn't even imagine driving my vehicles over there.

I have family in Europe and Canada. I will gladly pay five bucks a gallon if it took the place of what I pay yearly for medical insurance. Actually, I would come out a head at five bucks a gallon.

Past two days I did a 800 mile loop on a transport run, from El Paso to Big Springs. When I left, it was 2.55 a gallon. On the way back, it was 2.99 a gallon. The majority of the vehicles I saw were big ole SUVs. I got back to work and saw the parking lot, full of big ole SUVs. Then I got in my 14 mpg TJ and headed home. Tomorrow the bike comes out again..

 

[TwistedCU]

As I mentioned in another thread, gas is 5 cents a gallon in Iraq.

Mud, you are right. Propane, CNG... they are viable alternatives. The only problem I see with them is the fact that they too are a natural resource and they may only be a temporary solution. Okay, a second problem is having stations to refuel them to become more available.

I bought a carb from a guy who converted his Jeep to propane.

 

[Saurian]

RE: Re: RE: crank position sensor

Hmmm... This is interesting, and not good.

Lacking natgas, some power plants shut in US East

Wed Aug 31, 2005 12:32 PM ET
NEW YORK, Aug 31 (Reuters) - The reduction in natural gas supplies from the Gulf of Mexico due to Hurricane Katrina shut some natural gas-fired power plants in the eastern United States.
The natural gas producers shut their rigs in the Gulf of Mexico as Katrina tore through the key offshore producing areas earlier this week, curtailing the amount of gas supplied to the pipelines.

Several utilities in the Southeast, including FPL Group Inc. (FPL.N: Quote, Profile, Research) and Progress Energy Inc. (PGN.N: Quote, Profile, Research) , urged customers to conserve energy to reduce the amount of natural gas supplies needed to generate electricity.

In the Mid-Atlantic and Midwest regions, PJM Interconnection, the nation's biggest power grid operator serving more than 51 million people, said some natural gas-fired generating facilities were out of service or operating at less than full power due to the reduced fuel supplies.

Ray Dotter, a spokesman at PJM, said the grid operator was monitoring the situation closely, but noted the reduced output from the natural gas plants had not affected the reliability of the system.

Dotter said the grid still had more than enough generation to meet consumer demand despite the reduced output at some natgas facilities. He said he could not identify those plants due to competitive reasons.

On Tuesday, the U.S. Minerals Management Service, which manages the U.S. offshore mineral resources including natural gas production, said Katrina shut in about 8.8 billion cubic feet of Gulf of Mexico natural gas output, up from about 8.3 bcf on Monday and about 88 percent of the total produced daily from offshore Gulf wells.

The cumulative total of gas shut in by the storm from Aug. 26 to Aug. 30 was about 25.4 bcf.

The producers have reported some storm damage to offshore platforms or pipelines, but it could take up to a week to assess Katrina's full impact.

PJM operates the grid in all or parts of Delaware, Indiana, Illinois, Kentucky, Maryland, Michigan, New Jersey, North Carolina, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Tennessee, Virginia, West Virginia and the District of Columbia, and administers the wholesale electricity market with a generating capacity of more than 167,000 MW.

I know that Detroit Edison (DTE Energy) is hurting right now, if it wasn't for the nuke plant in Monroe, we'd be in trouble...

 

[TwistedCU]

The plant making our power burns coal, thankfully. Hmmm, never thought I'd be saying that!