Kerry
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currupt4130
VT Hokie
thanks for the comic relief this was getting kinda tense lol
TwistedCU
New member
I did not mean for my reply to criticise you personally, and I probably should have used a lighter tone in my last sentance. I'm sorry if I came off as attacking you, that was not my intent.currupt4130 said:
Your opinion was clearly understood, but you must understand that I will defend my beliefs and my family's way of life stongly when it is criticized by someone using examples and generalizations/stereotypes.
To put it plainly, with 4 kids a decent private school is not an option for a single income family. Baltimore city schools are just pathetic schools. We originally were just planning on homeschooling until we move to PA, but now that we see so many benefits to it we will continue to do so even after we move.
I just got home from taking my son to Wrestling, where he was voted captain for his group (by age/weight). He is a strong young man in many ways and I am very proud of him and of the job my wife and I have done raising him thus far.
I want to make it clear that I agree that there could be instances where children are sheltered like you mentioned, and we have met a couple families like that (my own sister is one of them :roll: ) in our meetings with others. This does not mean that is is that standard. It is in my observation very rare.
I also want to say that all the things written about public schools are not necessarily the standard either, but they are all too common. I know in my High School all of the above mentioned things went on, and I was in one of the best school districts in Maryland at the time.
Homeschooling has increased dramatically every year and will only continue to grow.
Mingez:
On the subject of evolution:
Mingez you must be aware that there is a very large number of people in this country who dispute the theory of evolution as it is taught in public schools. This does not mean that there isn't belief in many principals of evolution, but many believe that God created man and earth. I am one of them. I have read some very good books applying biblical principals and scripture to evolution and if I can dig one in particular out I'd be happy to send you the title. I'm guessing that you wouldn't want to read it (not a dig there, I just suspect you would think it a waste of time), but if you did I think it would surprise you to see an extremely strong arguement for my beliefs. There are many holes in the theory of evolution, the "missing link" would be a prime example (although I think it visits Jeepz from time to time :wink: ).
My point here is that just because someone says they don't want their kids to learn evolution in public schools doesn't mean that they don't believe in any science or are blind to some of the evidences that evolution has taken place. It's just that the scope to which it is taught in Schools is not consistant with many beliefs.
I guess if that makes me a whacko, then I'll be a fool for God's sake :wink:
I could be wrong, but it seemed to me that your reply seemed rather out of character.
90Xjay
New member
Mingez,
you poor child, I know you probably worshiped your professors in college and clung to their every word. :lol:
I know this is really hijacking this post, but it has been so much fun so far.
Mingez..
Why is the missing link.......still missing?
Nebraska Man, built from one tooth and some imagination, several years later, the tooth was proven to have come from an extinct pig.
Still for several years it was left in the text books as "Proof" of evolution.
Piltdown Man's jawbone turned out to belong to a modern ape, still taught in some text books as "Proof" of evolution
Ernst Haeckel said way back in 1869 that human embryos go through stages of development from Amphibian, Reptile and Mammal and that babies in the womb develop "gill slits"
This was proven wrong over 50 years ago. There are folds of skin in the embryo but those are not gills. They are little folds of skin that later develop into the Mandible, the Masseter muscle. This was still left in the text books as "Proof" of evolution.
Vestigial organs, so called organs left over from evolution no longer needed in the human body.
The appendix is part of the immune system, strategically located at the entrance of the almost sterile ileum from the colon with its normally high bacterial content.
The tonsils have a similar function in the entrance to the pharynx.
The pineal gland secretes malatonin which is a hormone that regulates the circadian rhythm and has other functions.
The thymus is part of the immune system, related to T-cells. HIV attacks T-cells, rendering them ineffective and for this reason is always eventually fatal.
The tail bone, is supposedly left over from a tail you once had. If you did not have a tail bone you would not have an anchor point for the muscles that let you have bowel movements.
If you have any Vestigial organs that you think are left over from evolution and your body does not need, have them removed and see how you do.
These things are all taught in text books as "proof" of evolution and our children are taught it as fact and made to answer them correctly in order to pass test.
BTW, if your are honest, it takes you more faith to believe that you came from apes, which came from plants, which came from primordial soup, which came from rain on the earths rocky crust, which the earth came from a big bang, then it takes me to believe where I came from.
you poor child, I know you probably worshiped your professors in college and clung to their every word. :lol:
I know this is really hijacking this post, but it has been so much fun so far.
Mingez..
Why is the missing link.......still missing?
Nebraska Man, built from one tooth and some imagination, several years later, the tooth was proven to have come from an extinct pig.
Still for several years it was left in the text books as "Proof" of evolution.
Piltdown Man's jawbone turned out to belong to a modern ape, still taught in some text books as "Proof" of evolution
Ernst Haeckel said way back in 1869 that human embryos go through stages of development from Amphibian, Reptile and Mammal and that babies in the womb develop "gill slits"
This was proven wrong over 50 years ago. There are folds of skin in the embryo but those are not gills. They are little folds of skin that later develop into the Mandible, the Masseter muscle. This was still left in the text books as "Proof" of evolution.
Vestigial organs, so called organs left over from evolution no longer needed in the human body.
The appendix is part of the immune system, strategically located at the entrance of the almost sterile ileum from the colon with its normally high bacterial content.
The tonsils have a similar function in the entrance to the pharynx.
The pineal gland secretes malatonin which is a hormone that regulates the circadian rhythm and has other functions.
The thymus is part of the immune system, related to T-cells. HIV attacks T-cells, rendering them ineffective and for this reason is always eventually fatal.
The tail bone, is supposedly left over from a tail you once had. If you did not have a tail bone you would not have an anchor point for the muscles that let you have bowel movements.
If you have any Vestigial organs that you think are left over from evolution and your body does not need, have them removed and see how you do.
These things are all taught in text books as "proof" of evolution and our children are taught it as fact and made to answer them correctly in order to pass test.
BTW, if your are honest, it takes you more faith to believe that you came from apes, which came from plants, which came from primordial soup, which came from rain on the earths rocky crust, which the earth came from a big bang, then it takes me to believe where I came from.
Saurian
New member
Jeep Channel
:
okes with 10 foot pole::
Nah...
And yet...
Hm...
Graduated from public high school in '01, nothing against homeschooling, private schooling, or any form of education as long as it is pursued in an openminded fashion... Big problem with my school: social cliques, and me being more of the shy outcasty type... I know what I learned, I know what I believe, and that's that...
Re: Election...
Alls I have to say is that, although I thought that this election was a sure thing, I am no longer sure... I know who I am voting for, but I must admit, I am rather interested to see how it turns out...
... Jeep!
:
okes with 10 foot pole::Nah...
And yet...
Hm...
Graduated from public high school in '01, nothing against homeschooling, private schooling, or any form of education as long as it is pursued in an openminded fashion... Big problem with my school: social cliques, and me being more of the shy outcasty type... I know what I learned, I know what I believe, and that's that...
Re: Election...
Alls I have to say is that, although I thought that this election was a sure thing, I am no longer sure... I know who I am voting for, but I must admit, I am rather interested to see how it turns out...
... Jeep!
mingez
New member
Sorry-sorry-sorry, yeah I'm cranky today. Didn't mean to take it out on you all. "BAD MINGEZ!!" (Slaps himself on hand) But if I don't say what I'm thinking aren't I being "PC"? And I know you all hate that!
Yes TC, it was out of character. And while I'd be lying if I said I wasn't thinking that in my head... for actually posting it I apologize. The criticism and poke being posted, was out of line. And yes, I was being snobby and condecsending-- things that I despise more than anything on this planet....Sorry 90Xjay.
First off, let me say that all I took exception to is the assumption that everything in academia is a lie if you don't agree with it. It's akin to me saying: "Everything in the Bible is a lie" Or "the institution of church is a lie"...etc.
Most of the things you listed as examples are outdated and refuted by scientists and anthropologists. If your local public school system is still citing that stuff, then maybe homeschooling is a good idea.
Just the very fact that you cited "Piltdown man" as an example shows that you are fishing through Creationist propaganda. It's the go-to example for that side of the arguement. That was a hoax from the very beginning, and proved incorrect by evolutionists themselves (not Creationists).
But I understand that those of faith would have an objection to evolution through natural selection being taught in school due to it's inherent nature to contradict the writings and teachings of christianity. So I understand, and support your reasons there, it's a free country.
I do however want to point out, that the examples listed in his post is oversimplification of a vast science (and a hard science) that admits to making mistakes in its history. Mistakes are opportunity for discovery. Science, as a process is 1-Theory, 2-experimentation (where the idea is to prove the theory wrong), 3-evaluating data and drawing a conclusion, which usually ends up bringing one to more questions than answers. And the "Examples" listed are examples of process, but not proof of ineptness. Simply put, science considers "failure" a "victory", for this is how truths are discovered.
Next, I want to state for the record that it's the "Theory of Evolution through Natural Selection" that is debated between creationists and evolutionists not evolution itself. Evolution as a process is usually considered fact by biologists and rarely debated by learned Creationists. Rather, it's how these changes occur and where splits and orgins i.e. apes, primordial soup, single celled organisms began that is argued.
I was an Anthro (and Comm) Major, and have entirely too much schooling on this particular subject and have learned to avoid this debate like GW avoids using "big" words. (slaps self on hand again..."BAD MINGEZ"):lol:
Lastly, and most importantly, I DON'T want to have a Religion vs Science, Academia vs. Church, and Creation vs. Evolution debate. I don't want to offend anyone (anymore) and retorting to 90Xjay's last post would only accomplish just that. I'll debate anything else, but not this subject, because doing so only leads to hurt feelings due to the emotional attachment to the belief of any religion.
I conclude with this: "Absence of evidence isn't necessarily proof of evidence of absence." That is a good point when speaking about both the missing link and God both. Just because you can't prove the existence of either, doesn't mean they don't exist. :wink:
Yes TC, it was out of character. And while I'd be lying if I said I wasn't thinking that in my head... for actually posting it I apologize. The criticism and poke being posted, was out of line. And yes, I was being snobby and condecsending-- things that I despise more than anything on this planet....Sorry 90Xjay.
First off, let me say that all I took exception to is the assumption that everything in academia is a lie if you don't agree with it. It's akin to me saying: "Everything in the Bible is a lie" Or "the institution of church is a lie"...etc.
Most of the things you listed as examples are outdated and refuted by scientists and anthropologists. If your local public school system is still citing that stuff, then maybe homeschooling is a good idea.
Just the very fact that you cited "Piltdown man" as an example shows that you are fishing through Creationist propaganda. It's the go-to example for that side of the arguement. That was a hoax from the very beginning, and proved incorrect by evolutionists themselves (not Creationists).
But I understand that those of faith would have an objection to evolution through natural selection being taught in school due to it's inherent nature to contradict the writings and teachings of christianity. So I understand, and support your reasons there, it's a free country.
I do however want to point out, that the examples listed in his post is oversimplification of a vast science (and a hard science) that admits to making mistakes in its history. Mistakes are opportunity for discovery. Science, as a process is 1-Theory, 2-experimentation (where the idea is to prove the theory wrong), 3-evaluating data and drawing a conclusion, which usually ends up bringing one to more questions than answers. And the "Examples" listed are examples of process, but not proof of ineptness. Simply put, science considers "failure" a "victory", for this is how truths are discovered.
Next, I want to state for the record that it's the "Theory of Evolution through Natural Selection" that is debated between creationists and evolutionists not evolution itself. Evolution as a process is usually considered fact by biologists and rarely debated by learned Creationists. Rather, it's how these changes occur and where splits and orgins i.e. apes, primordial soup, single celled organisms began that is argued.
I was an Anthro (and Comm) Major, and have entirely too much schooling on this particular subject and have learned to avoid this debate like GW avoids using "big" words. (slaps self on hand again..."BAD MINGEZ"):lol:
If I respond to that...then I won't be keeping to my promise to not open this Pandora's box. But suffice it to say that I strongly disagree... "honestly."
Yeah I did listen to many of my professors, but I usually disagreed with most of them too. :wink: How 'bout you and your pastor/priest? :lol: (I mean that in total jest)...but don't ever call me a child pal...(I'm kidding again)
Lastly, and most importantly, I DON'T want to have a Religion vs Science, Academia vs. Church, and Creation vs. Evolution debate. I don't want to offend anyone (anymore) and retorting to 90Xjay's last post would only accomplish just that. I'll debate anything else, but not this subject, because doing so only leads to hurt feelings due to the emotional attachment to the belief of any religion.
I conclude with this: "Absence of evidence isn't necessarily proof of evidence of absence." That is a good point when speaking about both the missing link and God both. Just because you can't prove the existence of either, doesn't mean they don't exist. :wink:
mingez
New member
I'm all for that. I'll always check out both sides of an arguement!! Shoot me a PM. I'm positive you have good reasons for your beliefs TC. 8)
---By the way, I don't have a thing against homeschooling.
VERY true. And I hope that my sad comment wasn't taken to be anti Home schooling. I think it should be a choice...just like anything else. I was just being jerky!!
90Xjay
New member
Mingez,
I too want to make sure you caught the pun in my post toward you and thank you for keeping it fun
Yes there are still text books today using these "proofs" to persuade students and that is only one of my many dislikes about the government school system.
This forum has been a lot of fun and I really enjoy everyone's comments although we all represent a broad spectrum of beliefs and educational backgrounds.
Honestly my pastor has had very little if nothing to due with my research into creationism. I just look at the world with "Biblical" glasses and I am biased like all of us are and passionate about our belief system whether it be creation or evolution, both offer "proofs" and neither have any eyewitness. Both require faith.
One very last comment on the topic then we can move right along.
I want you to know that anybody, before they begin an honest debate on this subject should define the term "evolution"
I DO believe in "Micro-Evolution" which some call variation within a kind.
Breed dogs with dogs and you get different kinds of Dogs etc etc..
Variations happen all the time, selected bateria become resistant to drugs. You have every right to claim these facts and I do not dispute them.
I Do Not believe in "Macro-Evolution" where a dog came from a rock.
I do again humbly appoligize for my part in taking this thread soooo far off course. May the forum gods forgive me...
And as Klinger said to Maj Hoolihan on Mash....
Bless you, and may your camel spit only dates......
I too want to make sure you caught the pun in my post toward you and thank you for keeping it fun
Yes there are still text books today using these "proofs" to persuade students and that is only one of my many dislikes about the government school system.
This forum has been a lot of fun and I really enjoy everyone's comments although we all represent a broad spectrum of beliefs and educational backgrounds.
Honestly my pastor has had very little if nothing to due with my research into creationism. I just look at the world with "Biblical" glasses and I am biased like all of us are and passionate about our belief system whether it be creation or evolution, both offer "proofs" and neither have any eyewitness. Both require faith.
One very last comment on the topic then we can move right along.
I want you to know that anybody, before they begin an honest debate on this subject should define the term "evolution"
I DO believe in "Micro-Evolution" which some call variation within a kind.
Breed dogs with dogs and you get different kinds of Dogs etc etc..
Variations happen all the time, selected bateria become resistant to drugs. You have every right to claim these facts and I do not dispute them.
I Do Not believe in "Macro-Evolution" where a dog came from a rock.
I do again humbly appoligize for my part in taking this thread soooo far off course. May the forum gods forgive me...
And as Klinger said to Maj Hoolihan on Mash....
Bless you, and may your camel spit only dates......
mingez
New member
That statement alone is very intelligent. Kudos! (not that I'm surprised)
In anthropology, we refer to that as "Cultural Relativism". The ability to observe with the knowledge that you and everybody else is biased by there own beliefs. I too understand that I see the world through different glasses and try to take that into consideration every day.
As for hijacking, don't apologize, this is only the 3rd or 4th hijack on this thread. Kerry, Homeschooling, Evolution... what else? :lol:
Why don't you guys who think homeschooling is "sheltering the children" take a look at the test results in the school systems in the AR delta. THAT"s why if I ever decide to move back to my hometown my children will be taught by my wife. My parents borrowed and sacrificed to put my sister and me through private school in Memphis because they knew we would not get an education in the public schools. That won't be a feasible option for my family as the school has tripled tuition in the last 10 years. Home schooling is an option and I am confident my children will be better for it. I learned more from my teachers in high school than I did in 7 years (2 degrees) of college (state run college at that). There are too many public school teachers who burn out trying to teach kids who don't want to be taught, and trying to talk to parents who don't care. The teachers give up, and I don't want my children being taught by someone who has given up. As for the "socially retarded" thing, if my kids couldn't fit in the the drugs, sex, violence, and general apathy the kids have nowadays, I think they'll do much better in the "real world".
90Xjay
New member
Mingez,
you left of the last 3 words in my paragraph you quoted, it was part of the thought and is needed to make it complete
"Both require faith"
For anyone to believe something happened thousands, or for evolutionist, millions of years ago, that nobody has observed, requires a belief system.
If we both admit our bias toward our own belief system, then we can begin to have an intelligent debate on almost any topic.
(Even though you are dead wrong about almost everthing) LOL..
get that? That was humor everyone!!
you left of the last 3 words in my paragraph you quoted, it was part of the thought and is needed to make it complete
"Both require faith"
For anyone to believe something happened thousands, or for evolutionist, millions of years ago, that nobody has observed, requires a belief system.
If we both admit our bias toward our own belief system, then we can begin to have an intelligent debate on almost any topic.
(Even though you are dead wrong about almost everthing) LOL..
get that? That was humor everyone!!
Tug-n-pull
New member
From FrankenKerry to Home schiooling the kids! what a post!!!! you gota love it! tug
TwistedCU
New member
Tug you forgot Gun control, the war on drugs, abortion, environmentally correct vehicles, Taxes, Bush, the War, creation/evolution, the RNC's possible '08 election candidate, Dog farts, Kool Aid, the current state of the public education system, a duct-taped teen, and bias during debate.
Yeah, I think this is an official hi-jacking.
But the best part of this thread by far was this photo:
It's mine, It's mine, It's mine... :lol:
Yeah, I think this is an official hi-jacking.
But the best part of this thread by far was this photo:
It's mine, It's mine, It's mine... :lol:
Tug-n-pull
New member
TwistedCopper said:Tug you forgot Gun control, the war on drugs, abortion, environmentally correct vehicles, Taxes, Bush, the War, creation/evolution, the RNC's possible '08 election candidate, Dog farts, Kool Aid, the current state of the public education system, a duct-taped teen, and bias during debate.
Yeah, I think this is an official hi-jacking.
But the best part of this thread by far was this photo:
Wait till my dad hears about this! :lol:
And I sure do like it too! tug
Tug-n-pull
New member
If you really want to play OK! I got a million of em so here you go. hheeheheehehehe
I remember being the one to say don't do this type of thing to start with cause it helps no one! But I was wrong. I got plenty more where that come from. The Bufoon is such an ez target and so much fun to poke it at! He is better to throw pie at than Dan Quail. So if by a stacked deck he gets re seated "and not elected into" in the white house by the Surprem court yet again "proves justice is blind" at least we know we will have a few more good laughs. They will come in handy to soften the blows to our economy and at the gas pumps. tug
I remember being the one to say don't do this type of thing to start with cause it helps no one! But I was wrong. I got plenty more where that come from. The Bufoon is such an ez target and so much fun to poke it at! He is better to throw pie at than Dan Quail. So if by a stacked deck he gets re seated "and not elected into" in the white house by the Surprem court yet again "proves justice is blind" at least we know we will have a few more good laughs. They will come in handy to soften the blows to our economy and at the gas pumps. tug
