bell housing & clutch part compatability question

[14erclimber]

Want to change my plugs and get ready for winter

Hi! I've got a leaky clutch slave cylinder on my '93 Cherokee. I've seen
elsewhere here, although I can't find it now, that the '94 and later has
an external slave rather than internal. I priced the parts, and
have found it'll be actually cheaper to replace the bell housing
with a '94 part while I'm at it, since the internal slave cylinder
is much more expensive. (I feel lucky to have located a bell
housing for $65!) I'd just get busy and do it, but before
I buy parts and spread it out all over the garage floor, I'd like
to be sure that the new bell housing, the fork, and the bearing
will be compatible. And any pointers on how to tell if the transmission
is really the same? I don't want to find out that if I change the
bell, that the transmission will have to be changed, too. Also have
parts suppliers telling me that they sell the master and slave
cylinder together, and others will sell just one. Any advantage
to replacing both? I'm new here, and appreciate this forum. I've
learned a lot already but haven't found the answers to these
questions, so hope there's an expert or two out that the can help.
Thanks! -- Steve

 

[Bounty__Hunter]

The trannies are the same, so you're good to go there.
You will need:

• Bellhousing
  clutch throwout arm
  Throwout bearing
  External slave
  Front transmission cover

I'm sure you'll need to change the plumbing between the clutch master cylinder and the external slave, it'd probably be easier to buy the '94 clutch master cylinder the same time you buy the '94 clutch and external slave.

You need to swap the front cover off the transmission for a '94 or later, real easy, only 10 or so bolts and some sealant. The '93 and older front cover is flat and is where the clutch slave mounts. The '94 and later is long and covers the input shaft, this is where the throwout bearing rides.

It's a good common swap, good choice.

 

[14erclimber]

Bounty,

Thanks a bundle for clarifying some of this. Two wrecking yards confirmed that the transmissions are different, but apparenly the difference is the front cover, per your note. But it does mean I need another part, which is kind of what I expected. At least now I know which one. Maybe I'd best not start tomorrow yet ...

I found an exploded view of the AX15 on the web at http://www.drivetrain.com/transilljeep_ax15.htm. Is the cover you're referring to the part numbered '4' in this image? Af first I envisioned something that covered the entire front of the gearbox, but this is just the input shaft bearing retainer, right? This one appears to be for a 1994 or later transmission, right? I take it that on my 1993 model, there will be some trappings here for mounting the internal slave cylinder.

Don't know quite where to look for this part -- when I asked at the wrecking yard that has the bell housing, they offered to sell me the transission as well, but would be willing to bet they don't want to sell me just a part of it. I also noticed while looking at it today that I've got a front seal going bad on the transfer case. Hope those aren't much of a trick to change. That explains the occasional gear-lube smell I've noticed lately.

Thanks again!

Steve

 

[Bounty__Hunter]

If you offer your front transmission cover to the yard in return, thier transmission is still marketable as a pre'94 model, still useable with an internal slave.

Yes, it's part #4. Your current piece doesn't have the long snout that the arrow points to, it's flat and has a roll pin to clip the internal slave to. Sounds like you are on the right track.

 

[14erclimber]

Thought I should report on how I got on with this upgrade. Mostly a positive experience, but it has served to build my character a bit more than expected or desired ...

I found the bearing retainer plate at a local transmission rebuilder, who helped me out a bunch, and who I'd highly recommend: Precision Standards here in Colorardo Springs. They even helped me out with changing seals on the transfer case (I didn't have a big enough socket for the front yoke), and evaluating if it needed any more work (which it doesn't), in exchange for my old bearing retainer plate.

As to the character building, I've been fairly frustrated with the clutch master-slave cylinder experience. I'm about to detail that in a separate note in this forum, which I'll title something like: "clutch slave cylinder push-rod problem". It gets a separate note because it gets kinda convoluted ...

Anyhow, it's now mostly together, except for the above noted difficulty. Worst part was trying to stab the pilot bearing with the input shaft, which is usually what has given me trouble in the past. I figured out I've done five previous clutches since 1969, but haven't had to touch one since about 1985, until now that is. Maybe that's why taking this on was so intimidating. Thanks to this forum, I actually had confidence to try it. And Bounty, your list of what I needed was exactly right, although you couldn't have anticipated what I ran into with the slave cylinder -- Thanks!

 

[14erclimber]

I got this all put back together, but had a couple moments when I thought I was going to have to take it all apart again. The first was when I was trying to engage the shifter with the shift tower mechanism. I must have worked at it for nearly an hour (from below, like the manual says can be done), then finally took apart the console between the seats to have a look from above. I discovered that the reason for my difficulty was that I'd left a paper towel stuffed in the shift tower to prevent dust and other crud from falling in, and it was still there, so I'd been trying to cram the shifter in there with it. Color me dumb! The second problem was after I had it all but together and started it up, put it in reverse, and was about to back out of the garage, or try, that is. No Go. Nothing. I could hear the gears whirring, and the clutch acted just like it should. But no go. I reviewed quickly in my mind what I'd all done, and couldn't understand what I could have done to cause the clutch to be unable to engage. Weird, I thought. Finally, after cooling down and looking things over a bit, I figured out that I'd left the transfer case in neutral! It sure felt good to realize I wasn't going to have to start all over again!

Now I do have one last question about this project, and it relates to a noise I've not ever heard before. The only time I hear it is when I'm braking, and it seems to be a noise that's associated with speed, not engine RPMs. I can hear it most clearly when braking from maybe 20 MPH to zero, in neutral. It sounds like it's coming from the front, mostly, not the transmission area. It sounds like "large gears slowing down", under load, sort of a low rumble. If I had to guess, I'd say it might be the front differenetial. And I might be hearing it more because the noise from below and outside is more than typical, since I don't have the console above the shift tower put back together yet. Also, it may have been there for awhile, but masked by my somewhat noisey clutch, which is quieter now (replaced the worn pilot bearing). To those with more experience, does any of this sound familiar? Any pointers on how to isolate a noise like this?