Mooseknuckles
New member
I had to take my Jeep into the dealer after it died on the highway, the guy in the wrecker told me he took a old YJ almost as clean as my TJ off to the junkpile to get crushed. Such a waste....
What do you guys think about "Cash-for-clunkers"
- Thread starter TerryMason
- Start date
88Wrangles
New member
I think I'm going to cry after seeing those videos! lol.
That last one tried so hard to stay alive too!
That last one tried so hard to stay alive too!
jeepmaster
New member
I won't even watch them!
Saurian
New member
This program absolutely disgusts me, for, but not limited to, the reasons following...
First and foremost, I just read an article that claims that, among others, Jeep Cherokee and Grand Cherokee are in the top of the list of vehicles being "traded in" (read: perfectly good vehicles having their engines blown up and scrapped). This, in and of itself, disgusts me more than I care to mention. I'm perfectly happy with my "clunker" Jeepy, a Patriot Blue 2000 XJ, now running 138,000 miles, everything original except the alternator (excluding normal wear items such as spark plugs and the like), having eaten a couple gallons of water through the air intake, having a tree fall on it, having the radiator boil and the battery explode, and having the 4X4 system grind a front U-joint into a million billion pieces in the back woods BEFORE a 6 hour drive home on the freeway, which it made with no problem whatsoever...
But, I digress... Here are my thoughts.
Economic ramifications.
One BILLION dollars has been spent. Two more BILLION dollars are being approved. Where is this money coming from? My great great grandchildren?!? How long will this program keep on going on? It has the potential to be an effective bailout of the auto industry, all over again.
People are buying cars now, while they are effectively "on sale". As soon as this program is done, people will stop buying cars. So the auto companies have good numbers now, wait till next quarter, or next year. We're deferring a recession, not solving it.
People are trading in their "clunkers" for new cars. There's a right good chance that the reason they were driving a "clunker" is because they couldn't afford a new car... But they're buying one, potentially that they cannot afford. I have little to no doubt that people are buying cars that they cannot really afford, will default on the payments, and we'll be bailing out Chrysler Financial, GMAC, and Ford Credit before too long.
Finally, taxpayer money from this country is being used to buy over half of these new, fuel efficient cars, from FOREIGN car companies... And I understand that my dad's Nissan has more parts made in Indiana than my brother's AMC-Jeep Grand Wagoneer, but at the end of the day, the money's going overseas. The percentage of return investment into this country is not proportional to the money leaving.
Social ramifications.
The promotion of this concept of "free money" is absolutely irresponsible. When the money for the program ran out, my local news station, FOX 2 Detroit ran a story on it, complete with commentary from the everyman, or in this case, woman, on the street. She was lamenting the fact that she was still driving a "clunker" (late model Grand Marquis). What is she supposed to do now? She doesn't want to drive a clunker anymore! Umm... Here's an idea... Get a job. Save up your money, and BUY THE CAR YOU WANT!!! No government gave me a bailout to buy my Jeep when my car got totaled, I did it myself, and never looked back. Anything worth having is worth working for, but with entitlement programs such as these, such ideals go right out the window! Why on earth am I expected to work 40+ hours a week so over 40% of it can be taken in taxes, so you can get a new car?!? How is that fair?
No donations to charity. Why would people donate their car to Volunteers of America, or Purple Heart when they can get "free money" for them?
No affordable used cars. This and the above are based on the concept of this program fulfilling it's ultimate means, taking all older, supposedly gas-guzzling cars off the road. No more $800.00 Cavaliers, or Neons, or Tauruses... They're all going to be paperweights.
With a lack of affordable used cars, only those who can afford to buy a newer car will be driving. So, in a society where single mothers are waiting at the bus stop with their kids to get to and from the grocery store, we're blowing up the engines of perfectly good vehicles. No, this country was not based on a vast social charity, but this is just wasteful and asinine, no matter which way you look at it.
As with any program where a cash incentive is offered, it opens the door to corruption. What's to stop your friendly neighborhood used car dealer from fudging the numbers on the paperwork, and turning in lot cars for cold hard government cash?
Environmental ramifications.
The process of scrapping/recycling ANYTHING is very energy intensive. Taking these cars off the road, you've got oil, gas, coolant, other fluids, A/C refrigerant, batteries, tires... All of these things are now WASTE, and have to end up somewhere. After the deed is done, and the car is crushed into a pancake, that's a heck of a lot of evil DIESEL FUEL to transport it from Point A to Point B. Seems a bit of an oxymoron, really, this whole concept of saving the environment by expending massive amounts of energy and toxic materials to make it happen.
The cars on the road are small cheese compared to the other vehicles which are NOT leaving the road. The buses which will be transporting people when they can't afford new cars. Dump trucks, chippers, bucket trucks, front-end loaders, bulldozers, heavy machinery... Blasting down the road doing snow, I would swear that my Sterling dump truck is blowing out more thick black smoke in 5 minutes than my Jeep does in a month! And these are necessary evils. I challange anyone to present me with the plug-in electric equivalent of our diesel chipper, which can turn a telephone pole into dust in less than five minutes.
Granted, some of my points are toward the extreme end of the spectrum, but this is not to say that they could not happen. They very well could, and indeed, very well might. At the end of the day, this program leaves me with questions.
Why is my hard work (read: federal taxes paid) being used so other people can buy new cars? Since when, and where in the Constitution are individuals held accountable for the luxury items of others?
Why is the government pushing through all of these ill-thought out, yet socially extremist in their scope of change, programs, when we can't even get a word-for-word definition of what "going green" is?
How can we be claiming to help the environment with a program that is physically, financially, and socially wasteful, to an extent never seen before in our history?
I could go on, but I've got my dander up far too much already for bedtime. At the end of the day, besides all the other obvious faults, spending several billion dollars on an ill thought-out program, DURING A RECESSION, seems massively irresponsible to me. Especially because, on a lighter note, I don't even get a thank you for the cars I have helped to buy people, the TV converter boxes that I helped to buy people, so on, etc... etc...
In response to the original question, I don't think much of it at all.
First and foremost, I just read an article that claims that, among others, Jeep Cherokee and Grand Cherokee are in the top of the list of vehicles being "traded in" (read: perfectly good vehicles having their engines blown up and scrapped). This, in and of itself, disgusts me more than I care to mention. I'm perfectly happy with my "clunker" Jeepy, a Patriot Blue 2000 XJ, now running 138,000 miles, everything original except the alternator (excluding normal wear items such as spark plugs and the like), having eaten a couple gallons of water through the air intake, having a tree fall on it, having the radiator boil and the battery explode, and having the 4X4 system grind a front U-joint into a million billion pieces in the back woods BEFORE a 6 hour drive home on the freeway, which it made with no problem whatsoever...
But, I digress... Here are my thoughts.
Economic ramifications.
One BILLION dollars has been spent. Two more BILLION dollars are being approved. Where is this money coming from? My great great grandchildren?!? How long will this program keep on going on? It has the potential to be an effective bailout of the auto industry, all over again.
People are buying cars now, while they are effectively "on sale". As soon as this program is done, people will stop buying cars. So the auto companies have good numbers now, wait till next quarter, or next year. We're deferring a recession, not solving it.
People are trading in their "clunkers" for new cars. There's a right good chance that the reason they were driving a "clunker" is because they couldn't afford a new car... But they're buying one, potentially that they cannot afford. I have little to no doubt that people are buying cars that they cannot really afford, will default on the payments, and we'll be bailing out Chrysler Financial, GMAC, and Ford Credit before too long.
Finally, taxpayer money from this country is being used to buy over half of these new, fuel efficient cars, from FOREIGN car companies... And I understand that my dad's Nissan has more parts made in Indiana than my brother's AMC-Jeep Grand Wagoneer, but at the end of the day, the money's going overseas. The percentage of return investment into this country is not proportional to the money leaving.
Social ramifications.
The promotion of this concept of "free money" is absolutely irresponsible. When the money for the program ran out, my local news station, FOX 2 Detroit ran a story on it, complete with commentary from the everyman, or in this case, woman, on the street. She was lamenting the fact that she was still driving a "clunker" (late model Grand Marquis). What is she supposed to do now? She doesn't want to drive a clunker anymore! Umm... Here's an idea... Get a job. Save up your money, and BUY THE CAR YOU WANT!!! No government gave me a bailout to buy my Jeep when my car got totaled, I did it myself, and never looked back. Anything worth having is worth working for, but with entitlement programs such as these, such ideals go right out the window! Why on earth am I expected to work 40+ hours a week so over 40% of it can be taken in taxes, so you can get a new car?!? How is that fair?
No donations to charity. Why would people donate their car to Volunteers of America, or Purple Heart when they can get "free money" for them?
No affordable used cars. This and the above are based on the concept of this program fulfilling it's ultimate means, taking all older, supposedly gas-guzzling cars off the road. No more $800.00 Cavaliers, or Neons, or Tauruses... They're all going to be paperweights.
With a lack of affordable used cars, only those who can afford to buy a newer car will be driving. So, in a society where single mothers are waiting at the bus stop with their kids to get to and from the grocery store, we're blowing up the engines of perfectly good vehicles. No, this country was not based on a vast social charity, but this is just wasteful and asinine, no matter which way you look at it.
As with any program where a cash incentive is offered, it opens the door to corruption. What's to stop your friendly neighborhood used car dealer from fudging the numbers on the paperwork, and turning in lot cars for cold hard government cash?
Environmental ramifications.
The process of scrapping/recycling ANYTHING is very energy intensive. Taking these cars off the road, you've got oil, gas, coolant, other fluids, A/C refrigerant, batteries, tires... All of these things are now WASTE, and have to end up somewhere. After the deed is done, and the car is crushed into a pancake, that's a heck of a lot of evil DIESEL FUEL to transport it from Point A to Point B. Seems a bit of an oxymoron, really, this whole concept of saving the environment by expending massive amounts of energy and toxic materials to make it happen.
The cars on the road are small cheese compared to the other vehicles which are NOT leaving the road. The buses which will be transporting people when they can't afford new cars. Dump trucks, chippers, bucket trucks, front-end loaders, bulldozers, heavy machinery... Blasting down the road doing snow, I would swear that my Sterling dump truck is blowing out more thick black smoke in 5 minutes than my Jeep does in a month! And these are necessary evils. I challange anyone to present me with the plug-in electric equivalent of our diesel chipper, which can turn a telephone pole into dust in less than five minutes.
Granted, some of my points are toward the extreme end of the spectrum, but this is not to say that they could not happen. They very well could, and indeed, very well might. At the end of the day, this program leaves me with questions.
Why is my hard work (read: federal taxes paid) being used so other people can buy new cars? Since when, and where in the Constitution are individuals held accountable for the luxury items of others?
Why is the government pushing through all of these ill-thought out, yet socially extremist in their scope of change, programs, when we can't even get a word-for-word definition of what "going green" is?
How can we be claiming to help the environment with a program that is physically, financially, and socially wasteful, to an extent never seen before in our history?
I could go on, but I've got my dander up far too much already for bedtime. At the end of the day, besides all the other obvious faults, spending several billion dollars on an ill thought-out program, DURING A RECESSION, seems massively irresponsible to me. Especially because, on a lighter note, I don't even get a thank you for the cars I have helped to buy people, the TV converter boxes that I helped to buy people, so on, etc... etc...
In response to the original question, I don't think much of it at all.
B'ham Jeeper
New member
54cj3b
New member
I think this new cash for clunkers is a big crock , if everyone does this the average used car that costs about $3500. will go up to 6000.+ and not everyone can afford this also it will take away all our opportunity's to find a old classic to rebuild , just think no more muscle cars from the 50's,60's,and 70's, now who wants to loose these not me
you also need to consider the older cars are built better not throw away in 5 years ,why you think ins company's total cars these days rather than fix damage on a car worth around 18000. for 6500. they total it why cause it makes you spend more to replace it half the cars in a junk yard these days can be repaired fairly cheaply compared to buying a new car.
you also need to consider the older cars are built better not throw away in 5 years ,why you think ins company's total cars these days rather than fix damage on a car worth around 18000. for 6500. they total it why cause it makes you spend more to replace it half the cars in a junk yard these days can be repaired fairly cheaply compared to buying a new car.
