STARTER ISSUE -1996 Cherokee Sport

[rdm7938]

I am having an issue wih my starter. I removed it and had it checked out at both AutoZone & O'Reilley's (it tested out GOOD). However, I am told that they may not have put a LOAD on it or tested the solenoid.

When I reinstalled it, the Jeep started like a charm; after a few starts it would click, click, click, turnover; and now it makes no sound at all and does not start.

The only way I can get it to start is to put the ignition in the "on" position, crawl under the Jeep, and touch a screw driver to the 2 bolts (little and big) on the starter. When I do this, it starts right up immediately.

My thought is that one of the wires (the big one from the + side of the battery and the little one coming down from a harness/wire) is not giving the starter any juice/power.

OR, my 2nd thought is maybe the starter is actually bad.

Any thoughts are much appreciated.

 

[SteelHeadz]

If it starts fine when you jump it with a screw driver but won't when you start it from the ignition switch, that would indicate the problem is on the ignition circuit. Have you checked the wiring and connectors from the starter and ignition switch?, that where i would start checking.

 

[MudderChuck]

There is a starter relay in the PDC and a wire that goes down from under the front of the PDC, through a small connector (I think or maybe a splice) near the PDC, down the passengers side of the motor to the solenoid. Besides being way too small, the wire is vulnerable to damage.
Second thought is your neutral safety switch, if it won't start in park, try neutral. The neutral safety switch is the ground for the PDC starter relay.

Things that most often go wrong with the stater are; the brushes get worn and make iffy contact (sometimes it starts, sometimes it won't). The starter gets covered in oil from leaky oil filter adapter O rings and some seeps in and covers the brushes (don't know exactly how, but it happens). Battery connections are dirty/corroded (clean shiny clean and wipe with solvent) or the starter itself (the case) is oily and doesn't make good ground contact (especially after it has been dismounted, remounted and smeared with oil). The ground wire from the battery to the side of the bock comes loose at the mounting stud at the dipstick holder.

I've never seen a bad solenoid on a Bosch/Mitsubishi/Chrysler starter. I've never seen anything but the brushes screw up, either from wear, oil covered or mud caked.

I have seen a number of issues, like dirty battery cable connectors, weak battery, oil covered starter brushes and even oil covered starter housing (causing poor ground), add up and cause intermittent starter function. Cleaning everything up, usually makes them work better, even with iffy brushes.

Here are a couple of links that may be helpfull. http://www.go.jeep-xj.info/HowtoStarterClean.htm
http://www.go.jeep-xj.info/HowtoNSSrebuild.htm

 

[rdm7938]

If it starts fine when you jump it with a screw driver but won't when you start it from the ignition switch, that would indicate the problem is on the ignition circuit. Have you checked the wiring and connectors from the starter and ignition switch?, that where i would start checking.

I appreciate the suggestion re: the "ignition circuit." I am hoping to hit up the boneyard for a new cable that runs from my battery as well as the wire that runs from a harness up near the battery (both connect to the starter). Sorry if I am having trouble explaining this... I didn't grow up in a house where we worked on our cars.

Do you suggest I change out or check out anything else in the ignition circuit? What else is there?

 

[rdm7938]

There is a starter relay in the PDC and a wire that goes down from under the front of the PDC, through a small connector (I think or maybe a splice) near the PDC, down the passengers side of the motor to the solenoid. Besides being way too small, the wire is vulnerable to damage.
Second thought is your neutral safety switch, if it won't start in park, try neutral. The neutral safety switch is the ground for the PDC starter relay.

Things that most often go wrong with the stater are; the brushes get worn and make iffy contact (sometimes it starts, sometimes it won't). The starter gets covered in oil from leaky oil filter adapter O rings and some seeps in and covers the brushes (don't know exactly how, but it happens). Battery connections are dirty/corroded (clean shiny clean and wipe with solvent) or the starter itself (the case) is oily and doesn't make good ground contact (especially after it has been dismounted, remounted and smeared with oil). The ground wire from the battery to the side of the bock comes loose at the mounting stud at the dipstick holder.

I've never seen a bad solenoid on a Bosch/Mitsubishi/Chrysler starter. I've never seen anything but the brushes screw up, either from wear, oil covered or mud caked.

I have seen a number of issues, like dirty battery cable connectors, weak battery, oil covered starter brushes and even oil covered starter housing (causing poor ground), add up and cause intermittent starter function. Cleaning everything up, usually makes them work better, even with iffy brushes.

Here are a couple of links that may be helpfull. Cleaning the starter motor
NSS rebuild

Mudder Chuck, thanks for the thoughts and the links!! I am thinking/hoping that it may be the smaller wire that connects from a harness (near the fuse box) to the starter. I am thinking this because sometimes it seems as if power does not get to the starter, whereas other times it starts up. Not to mention the screwdriver. What do you think?

Now onto what happened tonight...


I started out by trying to crank the Jeep. It started EASILY a few times in a row and then all of a sudden would not start. Just the silence that I previously mentioned (maybe the whirr of the starter as well?).

So I was told to do a LIGHT TEST. I began by testing the battery to make sure I was doing it right. When touching the positive battery terminal my light tester lit right up, so I knew I was doing it correctly. With the Jeep ignition in the "ON" position, I crawled under the Jeep to administer the light test to the starter. Neither solenoid post would light up my tester, BUT I did start the vehicle by accidentily touching my tester to BOTH bolts simultaneously.

I shut the Jeep off and tried to start it in PARK again... it would NOT start, just silence. I then tried putting it in NEUTRAL and it started right up. After shutting it down once again, I tried starting in PARK again and it worked like a charm. Presently, it will start in BOTH park & neutral.

Any suggestions this time around? Still a starter and/or electrical issue? I know it's NOT the neutral safety switch, #1) because it will start in neutral, and #2) it was recently replaced by the dealer.

Thanks for all the help.

 

[SteelHeadz]

I am thinking/hoping that it may be the smaller wire that connects from a harness (near the fuse box) to the starter. I am thinking this because sometimes it seems as if power does not get to the starter, whereas other times it starts up. Not to mention the screwdriver. What do you think?

Now onto what happened tonight...


I started out by trying to crank the Jeep. It started EASILY a few times in a row and then all of a sudden would not start. Just the silence that I previously mentioned (maybe the whirr of the starter as well?).

. I then tried putting it in NEUTRAL and it started right up. After shutting it down once again, I tried starting in PARK again and it worked like a charm. Presently, it will start in BOTH park & neutral.

Any suggestions this time around? Still a starter and/or electrical issue? I know it's NOT the neutral safety switch, #1) because it will start in neutral, and #2) it was recently replaced by the dealer.

Thanks for all the help.

When it doesn't start in "Park", does it start in "Neutral " everytime?. Your pretty close in isolating the issue.If it does start in neutral everytime but not in park, i would recommend that you check the park/ neutral safety switch circuit. Even with a new unit, if the switch is not installed properly, the contacts on the switch may only work on either the park position or the neutral. Check the wirings and connectors related to the components for loose or corrosion in the contact point of the pins. The test light approach is the ideal tool to use for determining which is alive and which one is not. The multimeter will further help if you need to determine and verify a battery voltage on the circuit.

 

[MudderChuck]

Intermittent problems can drive you nuts. If it would just crap out completely, it would likely be easier to troubleshoot.
Starter brushes coated in oil sometimes make contact, sometimes don't (starter function can get really erratic). If you get any juice through the brushes at all, it often burns off the oil coating and you'll get a start (or few).
Is your starter coated in oil?
Neutral safety switch can get moisture inside, if it freezes it can also cause grief. Or like SteelHeads mentioned the adjustment may just be a little off. You said yours is new so corrosion is unlikely.
First step is to take the cable clamps off of the battery terminals, clean the terminals and the inside of the clamps, wipe them off with solvent. When I say clean, I mean scrub them down with a 3M pad, sand paper or wire brush, until they shine, then wipe them off with a clean rag and solvent, twice. Don't over tighten the clamps, tight but not super tight. See if this helps. Process of elimination. Volt test your battery or better yet have it load tested at the auto parts store.
Make sure the nut on the battery ground at the motor block, down near the dipstick holder is tight.
I take the nut off of the battery cable to block ground stud periodically and scrub/clean everything with an abrasive and solvent. I clean the battery ground strap loop, the trans control unit ground loop and the Power train control unit ground loop at the block ground with a 3M pad and solvent. I clean the threaded stud and nut with a wire brush and solvent.
If the starter refuses to work two times in a row, tap the side of the starter with a hammer (not the solenoid) and see what happens. This often reseats the brushes and will give you another start. The spring for the brushes gets weaker as the brushes get shorter and/or the wire to the brushes can run out of slack.
Jiggling the shift handle in park and/or trying to start in nuetral is a likely indicator of some ort of neutral safety switch issue. But sometimes the brushes decide to make contact on the second or third try and this may fool you into thinking it's the neutral safety switch, the starter relay, the ignition switch or the wiring. Like I said intermittent problems can drive a person nuts.

 

[rdm7938]

When it doesn't start in "Park", does it start in "Neutral " everytime?. Your pretty close in isolating the issue.If it does start in neutral everytime but not in park, i would recommend that you check the park/ neutral safety switch circuit. Even with a new unit, if the switch is not installed properly, the contacts on the switch may only work on either the park position or the neutral. Check the wirings and connectors related to the components for loose or corrosion in the contact point of the pins. The test light approach is the ideal tool to use for determining which is alive and which one is not. The multimeter will further help if you need to determine and verify a battery voltage on the circuit.

I started it this morning with no problem and drove it to the front of my house. After running in to get my stuff, it would not start up again in P or N.

To answer your question, it is sporadic and doesn't always start (regardless of being in P or N).

Thanks for the advice re: the NSS... how would I check to make sure it was installed properly?

I am thankful that my Chilton should arrive any day now.

 

[rdm7938]

Intermittent problems can drive you nuts. If it would just crap out completely, it would likely be easier to troubleshoot.
Starter brushes coated in oil sometimes make contact, sometimes don't (starter function can get really erratic). If you get any juice through the brushes at all, it often burns off the oil coating and you'll get a start (or few).
Is your starter coated in oil?
Neutral safety switch can get moisture inside, if it freezes it can also cause grief. Or like SteelHeads mentioned the adjustment may just be a little off. You said yours is new so corrosion is unlikely.
First step is to take the cable clamps off of the battery terminals, clean the terminals and the inside of the clamps, wipe them off with solvent. When I say clean, I mean scrub them down with a 3M pad, sand paper or wire brush, until they shine, then wipe them off with a clean rag and solvent, twice. Don't over tighten the clamps, tight but not super tight. See if this helps. Process of elimination. Volt test your battery or better yet have it load tested at the auto parts store.
Make sure the nut on the battery ground at the motor block, down near the dipstick holder is tight.
I take the nut off of the battery cable to block ground stud periodically and scrub/clean everything with an abrasive and solvent. I clean the battery ground strap loop, the trans control unit ground loop and the Power train control unit ground loop at the block ground with a 3M pad and solvent. I clean the threaded stud and nut with a wire brush and solvent.
If the starter refuses to work two times in a row, tap the side of the starter with a hammer (not the solenoid) and see what happens. This often reseats the brushes and will give you another start. The spring for the brushes gets weaker as the brushes get shorter and/or the wire to the brushes can run out of slack.
Jiggling the shift handle in park and/or trying to start in nuetral is a likely indicator of some ort of neutral safety switch issue. But sometimes the brushes decide to make contact on the second or third try and this may fool you into thinking it's the neutral safety switch, the starter relay, the ignition switch or the wiring. Like I said intermittent problems can drive a person nuts.

Tell me about it... I'm definitely going crazy!

Starter is not covered in oil... cleaned it off when I removed it for the test (not that it was bad anyway). Replaced the battery terminals as they were pretty corroded, but still have the same problem of no starts. I was hoping that may have been the problem.

I have a gut feeling that the wire (from harness) is shorting out for some reason. Hoping to head to the bone yard to get a new one. But I think I recall that the wire/harness eventually connects with the (+) cable before connecting to the starter. Is this all one cable?

 

[SteelHeadz]

I started it this morning with no problem and drove it to the front of my house. After running in to get my stuff, it would not start up again in P or N.

To answer your question, it is sporadic and doesn't always start (regardless of being in P or N).

Thanks for the advice re: the NSS... how would I check to make sure it was installed properly?

I am thankful that my Chilton should arrive any day now.

One way to check is to have someone turn the ignition to the crank position while someone else moves the NSS on the transmission and see if it catches(starts). You can test your battery cables by doing a continuity test from the battery clamps to the starter. If theres continuity, do a voltage test with a multimeter and verify that there's battery voltage going through the cable to the starter from the battery.

 

[carnuck]

NSS is common, but I bypassed mine by attaching to the wire from the starter (little one) where it plugs into the harness next to the battery.