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MudderChuck
New member
Done some bow hunting, was the only tag available in my county for awhile. Saw too many Deer running around in the thickets, with arrows sticking out of them and infected running sores and screw flies in the wounds.
Rarley have I seen a bow hunter with a dog, in my mind, pretty much a requirement for a bow hunter.
My philosophy has always been to kill them as quickly and humainly as possible. If you wound them, find them, even if it takes days and you have to follow the Bussards to the carcass.
Responsable hunting, just like responsible 4 wheeling, will benefit every body.
I´ve been a Game Warden, of one flavor or another for 35 years. Guess everybody has there sore points.
Cars, barbed, wire and bows have caused a lot of suffering. And occasionally poor shots, a two two small caliber rifle or uncontrolled dogs, have wasted a lot of meat.
I always liked the way the Browning fit, the high receiver works for me.
Rarley have I seen a bow hunter with a dog, in my mind, pretty much a requirement for a bow hunter.
My philosophy has always been to kill them as quickly and humainly as possible. If you wound them, find them, even if it takes days and you have to follow the Bussards to the carcass.
Responsable hunting, just like responsible 4 wheeling, will benefit every body.
I´ve been a Game Warden, of one flavor or another for 35 years. Guess everybody has there sore points.
Cars, barbed, wire and bows have caused a lot of suffering. And occasionally poor shots, a two two small caliber rifle or uncontrolled dogs, have wasted a lot of meat.
I always liked the way the Browning fit, the high receiver works for me.
Nice purchase, I have a Beneli Nova Pump, bought it used, but still looks brand new.....havent had any problems and have shot over 1000 rounds easy.....next purchase is an AR-15 as soon as I get my lift installed...probally next couple weeks....can't wait, I have wanted an AR for a while now
MudderChuck
New member
Question, why would anybody want an AR-15. I guess, if the style toots your whistle, why not. In my experience, the 15 is a marginal carbine, with a marginal round, scope mounted a little to high and not particularly accurate, the rifle or the .223 round. Always had reliability questions, though I imagine they have been improved.
Guess I´m just feeling contrary today. :wink:
Guess I´m just feeling contrary today. :wink:
Deerhunter30
New member
Mudder Creek,
I guess that everyone does have their sore points and one of mine is people bashing bowhuting. I have hunted my entire life and hunted almost exclusively with a bow for the past ten years and have not experienced what you describe. I am not saying that I will never injure an animal, but it has not happened yet. And before you go saying that I have not shot at anything, I have killed four deer, a ram, a turkey, and a javalena with a bow. I have never seen deer running around any of the ranches that I hunt with arrows hanging out of them and infected sores, although I will not say that some animals are injured by bowhunters. One thing that is true is that gun hunters injure animals as well.
I practice so that I can shoot proficiently and limit my shots to distances that I can shoot accurately. I wait for a good shot angle on a relaxed animal. The fact is that if you hit a deer or any other animal in the lungs and/or the heart with a broadhead tipped arrow they are going down quickly and humanely. The bottom line on bowhunting is if a person practices and shoots distances that they are proficient at and use good equipment bowhunting is an ethical and humane form of hunting.
I guess that everyone does have their sore points and one of mine is people bashing bowhuting. I have hunted my entire life and hunted almost exclusively with a bow for the past ten years and have not experienced what you describe. I am not saying that I will never injure an animal, but it has not happened yet. And before you go saying that I have not shot at anything, I have killed four deer, a ram, a turkey, and a javalena with a bow. I have never seen deer running around any of the ranches that I hunt with arrows hanging out of them and infected sores, although I will not say that some animals are injured by bowhunters. One thing that is true is that gun hunters injure animals as well.
I practice so that I can shoot proficiently and limit my shots to distances that I can shoot accurately. I wait for a good shot angle on a relaxed animal. The fact is that if you hit a deer or any other animal in the lungs and/or the heart with a broadhead tipped arrow they are going down quickly and humanely. The bottom line on bowhunting is if a person practices and shoots distances that they are proficient at and use good equipment bowhunting is an ethical and humane form of hunting.
Deerhunter30
New member
Mudder Creek,
What are you talking about dogs? Are you referring to a dog to track an animal after it is shot or to run the deer while hunting. In Texas it is illegal to run deer with dogs so I know nothing about that. I do have some friends with dogs that could come and track an animal that I cannot find if I needed them to.
What are you talking about dogs? Are you referring to a dog to track an animal after it is shot or to run the deer while hunting. In Texas it is illegal to run deer with dogs so I know nothing about that. I do have some friends with dogs that could come and track an animal that I cannot find if I needed them to.
MudderChuck
New member
is there a vin stamped on the engine of a 95 jeep wrangler
DeerHunter, guess we are a product or our experiences. I was talking about a tracking dog. But I have also used, a type of blood hound, trained to grab them by the back leg and hold them until I get there.
I´ve spent thousands of hours, just sitting and watching game, the health of the animal, age, wieght, what foriage they seem to be eating. Tick counts on freshly shot meat. Checked out the contents of there stomachs and checked for parasites (worms) and sickness, sent off organs for tests, contaminants and sickness. Had to shoot out whole areas, of deer for various reasons.
You sound like one of the good ones, you sound proficient in your weapons use, if bow hunting is your thing, and you have a tracking dog, just in case. And your willing to walk the thickets for, possibly hours, in the heat, to find your meat, why not with a bow.
Just sometimes, people come across, with the spin, that bow hunting is a more humane (or manly) way of hunting game. I guess because, it sometimes gives the animal more of a chance to get away, your shot has to be closer. But bows, aren´t generally user friendly and a great deal of practice and a cool head, is needed to bring down many Deer, within sight of the shot.
Not the rule, but often enough, a heart shot, with a rifle, a deer will run, 60 yards or more, lung shot maybe double that, possibly into the thickets. Too often hunters, give up, when it gets too hard. Some hiker or another hunter, reports a wounded animal, and me or someone like me, has to go finish the job. Not just bow hunters, rifle, car accidents, legs tied up with barbed wire, stagering sick or just to old to move much more. I always feel sad, for a suffering animal, having said that, I enjoy the hunt as much as the next guy. I take my satisfaction, from a neck shot (near the backbone) at a reasonable range and the deer just dies and falls in a heap.
I´ve also put out feeding stations, in seriously cold weather. Put out baits for the coyotes, foxes and skunks, oral innoculation against rabies. Set up special feeding stands, with brushes, to rub tick powder on the necks of game. Put out screw fly traps, for the biologist and many other jobs.
I´m not anti bow, possibly, anti irresponsible game harvesting.
I´ve had some really good times, bow fishing.
DeerHunter, guess we are a product or our experiences. I was talking about a tracking dog. But I have also used, a type of blood hound, trained to grab them by the back leg and hold them until I get there.
I´ve spent thousands of hours, just sitting and watching game, the health of the animal, age, wieght, what foriage they seem to be eating. Tick counts on freshly shot meat. Checked out the contents of there stomachs and checked for parasites (worms) and sickness, sent off organs for tests, contaminants and sickness. Had to shoot out whole areas, of deer for various reasons.
You sound like one of the good ones, you sound proficient in your weapons use, if bow hunting is your thing, and you have a tracking dog, just in case. And your willing to walk the thickets for, possibly hours, in the heat, to find your meat, why not with a bow.
Just sometimes, people come across, with the spin, that bow hunting is a more humane (or manly) way of hunting game. I guess because, it sometimes gives the animal more of a chance to get away, your shot has to be closer. But bows, aren´t generally user friendly and a great deal of practice and a cool head, is needed to bring down many Deer, within sight of the shot.
Not the rule, but often enough, a heart shot, with a rifle, a deer will run, 60 yards or more, lung shot maybe double that, possibly into the thickets. Too often hunters, give up, when it gets too hard. Some hiker or another hunter, reports a wounded animal, and me or someone like me, has to go finish the job. Not just bow hunters, rifle, car accidents, legs tied up with barbed wire, stagering sick or just to old to move much more. I always feel sad, for a suffering animal, having said that, I enjoy the hunt as much as the next guy. I take my satisfaction, from a neck shot (near the backbone) at a reasonable range and the deer just dies and falls in a heap.
I´ve also put out feeding stations, in seriously cold weather. Put out baits for the coyotes, foxes and skunks, oral innoculation against rabies. Set up special feeding stands, with brushes, to rub tick powder on the necks of game. Put out screw fly traps, for the biologist and many other jobs.
I´m not anti bow, possibly, anti irresponsible game harvesting.
I´ve had some really good times, bow fishing.
MudderChuck
New member
Having said that, I have to ask a couple of questions, just to be obnoxious. How old was the Ram. Were the Deer, Doe or Buck. Where the Buck spikes, forks or trophy, were they possible breeders. Where the Doe, small for there age or breeding stock. Is the area where you hunt a managed area? Did you have your meat inspected? Where any of the animals infested, did you open the lungs to have a look (lung worm), did you inspect the heart for worms. Check the meat for tapeworm cysts, or the liver for discoloration.
Did you have a look at the general health of the animal, looked for signs of over population, bark eaten off of the trees, the contents of the stomach.
Do you ever try to improve your hunting knowledge and not just your hunting skills? Do you try and help other youngsters or newbies be better bow hunters?
I learn from some guys (and gals) that are a whole lot better, at this stuff than I am. I notice a pretty small part, of the big picture, compared to them, but I constantly try and improve. And sometimes teach, but I´m not a very good teacher.
Did you have a look at the general health of the animal, looked for signs of over population, bark eaten off of the trees, the contents of the stomach.
Do you ever try to improve your hunting knowledge and not just your hunting skills? Do you try and help other youngsters or newbies be better bow hunters?
I learn from some guys (and gals) that are a whole lot better, at this stuff than I am. I notice a pretty small part, of the big picture, compared to them, but I constantly try and improve. And sometimes teach, but I´m not a very good teacher.
Deerhunter30
New member
I'll try and answer a few of your questions and address a few of your concerns. First, if I shoot an animal, I will track that animal until I find it or am convinced that it was a non-lethal hit. If that takes hours, then so be it. You commented about animals running a long distance after the shot and hunters giving up. In my experience with the animals that I have taken they have never gone much over fifty or sixty yards. I am not saying that I never will, but I have yet to have a very hard time tracking any animal that I have taken.
I do not believe that hunting with a bow is more or less humane or manly than hunting with a gun. It is more of a challenge because I must get closer to the animal. That does bring a thrill and helps me to feel more a part of nature than an observer. I shoot traditional equipment (a recurve without any sights) and my effective range is twenty yards. I prefer to have my shots inside of fifteen if possible because that is where I am very confident of my shooting abilities. I shoot at least twenty arrows a day five days a week year round in order to be proficient with my equipment….plus I like shooting my bow. I practice at 3D tournaments during the spring and summer to stay sharp as well. .
To answer a few of your direct questions. I do not know how old the ram was. He was one of the more mature rams that I had seen on the ranch that I was hunting. He was a Corsican ram which is not native to Texas and was on a ranch that breeds some of these non-native game for hunting. All the deer that I have taken with a bow have been does. With the exception of last year all of the leases that I have hunted did not have a large number of trophy bucks on them and in fact had buck to doe ratios that were far from ideal. Due to hunting regulations we were only allowed to take two doe per hunter and we had to do that during archery season. For management purposes, we needed to take as many does as possible. I try not to take a doe that has yearlings with her because I know that she is capable of breeding. I did hunt a ranch last year that was more managed. It had a better doe to buck ratio and a number of mature trophy bucks. I did shoot a buck at that ranch but did that with a rifle. Just to answer the question that will probably follow, the buck was 4 ½ years old. When I shot him I field judged him and thought that he would be 5 ½ years old, but was a little off. The buck had a 19 1/2 “ spread and scored 120 after 90 days drying time. The ranch rules were that a buck had to have eight points and be outside his ears, but most of the hunters had made an agreement to take mature animals. I always inspect my deer for any signs of deteriorated health….at least to my ability. I do not have the knowledge to inspect livers, lungs, and other types of things that you talk about. I do typically check the stomachs to see what a deer has been eating. I try to learn more about wildlife as well as hunting. I like to be a part of what is going on in nature….be a participant not just an observer. That is the one thing that I like about bowhunting….I get to be close and feel a part. I do try and get others involved. I have been teaching my brother-in-law to shoot a bow and hopefully he will get his first taste of bowhunting this year. I am also helping a youth in my church to get involved in bow hunting. I have already begun to introduce my sons to hunting and when they are old enough I will teach them to hunt.
Here are a few pics:
Here is me practicing a litte:
Here is me heading to the stand:
Here is my doe from last year (taken with a bow):
Here is my turkey from last year (taken with a bow):
Here is a picture of the buck that I took last year (taken with a rifle):
If you like those pics and want to see a few more check out this album:
http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4289169505&congratulation_page=Y
I do not believe that hunting with a bow is more or less humane or manly than hunting with a gun. It is more of a challenge because I must get closer to the animal. That does bring a thrill and helps me to feel more a part of nature than an observer. I shoot traditional equipment (a recurve without any sights) and my effective range is twenty yards. I prefer to have my shots inside of fifteen if possible because that is where I am very confident of my shooting abilities. I shoot at least twenty arrows a day five days a week year round in order to be proficient with my equipment….plus I like shooting my bow. I practice at 3D tournaments during the spring and summer to stay sharp as well. .
To answer a few of your direct questions. I do not know how old the ram was. He was one of the more mature rams that I had seen on the ranch that I was hunting. He was a Corsican ram which is not native to Texas and was on a ranch that breeds some of these non-native game for hunting. All the deer that I have taken with a bow have been does. With the exception of last year all of the leases that I have hunted did not have a large number of trophy bucks on them and in fact had buck to doe ratios that were far from ideal. Due to hunting regulations we were only allowed to take two doe per hunter and we had to do that during archery season. For management purposes, we needed to take as many does as possible. I try not to take a doe that has yearlings with her because I know that she is capable of breeding. I did hunt a ranch last year that was more managed. It had a better doe to buck ratio and a number of mature trophy bucks. I did shoot a buck at that ranch but did that with a rifle. Just to answer the question that will probably follow, the buck was 4 ½ years old. When I shot him I field judged him and thought that he would be 5 ½ years old, but was a little off. The buck had a 19 1/2 “ spread and scored 120 after 90 days drying time. The ranch rules were that a buck had to have eight points and be outside his ears, but most of the hunters had made an agreement to take mature animals. I always inspect my deer for any signs of deteriorated health….at least to my ability. I do not have the knowledge to inspect livers, lungs, and other types of things that you talk about. I do typically check the stomachs to see what a deer has been eating. I try to learn more about wildlife as well as hunting. I like to be a part of what is going on in nature….be a participant not just an observer. That is the one thing that I like about bowhunting….I get to be close and feel a part. I do try and get others involved. I have been teaching my brother-in-law to shoot a bow and hopefully he will get his first taste of bowhunting this year. I am also helping a youth in my church to get involved in bow hunting. I have already begun to introduce my sons to hunting and when they are old enough I will teach them to hunt.
Here are a few pics:
Here is me practicing a litte:
Here is me heading to the stand:
Here is my doe from last year (taken with a bow):
Here is my turkey from last year (taken with a bow):
Here is a picture of the buck that I took last year (taken with a rifle):
If you like those pics and want to see a few more check out this album:
http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4289169505&congratulation_page=Y
MudderChuck
New member
XBox or Playstation2?
You sound like one of the good ones. You take your craft seriously.
I probably, would have guessed, your buck at five years, doesn´t have any short points, on the trophy, good symetry. Often have to look at the teeth to know for sure and even then, some of the overseerers will argue about the age. The doe that produced that one, was probably getting old (good sign). Good looking Buck.
Just a personnal thing, not that I´m advocating it, but a different sort of thinking. I´ve got one trophy, from every age group, except the 3/4-6/7 Doe group. I know some hunters, that only display trophies, that are seriously flawed, culls. Also know some, that have hundreds of good trophies (not my thing).
Havn´t got a Ram yet, but did take a nice Goat, way back when.
Now on days, I usually hunt culls, undersized (incest) and other flawed or damaged game. Second year Bucks, that don´t seem to want to leave home or such. Thin the does, when necessary.
Hunting wild pig (Boars) still gets the old blood flowing, usually when they move into, cultivated areas and raise heck. Will harvest a few 100 pounders, until the old sow decides, it´s time to move on. Pigs usually make a lot of racket on the move, but when they want to sneak, it´s surprising how quietly a 300 lb. pig can move. Coming face to face with one at night or early in the morning, can certanly get the old blood pumping. Wounds on pigs, have a way of sealing back up quick, the shock of the bullet, is what usually puts them down, then shock sets in. They don´t bleed much. Usually use expanding bullets, messes up the meat a bit, but reduces lost game.
I´ve had an old sow, match my pace, thiry yards in the woodline, matching me step for step, just taking a look. Makes you wonder, who is hunting who.
Good hunting.
You sound like one of the good ones. You take your craft seriously.
I probably, would have guessed, your buck at five years, doesn´t have any short points, on the trophy, good symetry. Often have to look at the teeth to know for sure and even then, some of the overseerers will argue about the age. The doe that produced that one, was probably getting old (good sign). Good looking Buck.
Just a personnal thing, not that I´m advocating it, but a different sort of thinking. I´ve got one trophy, from every age group, except the 3/4-6/7 Doe group. I know some hunters, that only display trophies, that are seriously flawed, culls. Also know some, that have hundreds of good trophies (not my thing).
Havn´t got a Ram yet, but did take a nice Goat, way back when.
Now on days, I usually hunt culls, undersized (incest) and other flawed or damaged game. Second year Bucks, that don´t seem to want to leave home or such. Thin the does, when necessary.
Hunting wild pig (Boars) still gets the old blood flowing, usually when they move into, cultivated areas and raise heck. Will harvest a few 100 pounders, until the old sow decides, it´s time to move on. Pigs usually make a lot of racket on the move, but when they want to sneak, it´s surprising how quietly a 300 lb. pig can move. Coming face to face with one at night or early in the morning, can certanly get the old blood pumping. Wounds on pigs, have a way of sealing back up quick, the shock of the bullet, is what usually puts them down, then shock sets in. They don´t bleed much. Usually use expanding bullets, messes up the meat a bit, but reduces lost game.
I´ve had an old sow, match my pace, thiry yards in the woodline, matching me step for step, just taking a look. Makes you wonder, who is hunting who.
Good hunting.
Nymisus, check out www.ar15.com for any questions you have. Also have some good tips on building your own from a kit. And to answer the question, why would anyone want an AR15? The same reason anyone would want a jeep, or a plane, or a soccer ball, or anything else related to a hobby. They have very limited use, but they are a lot of fun. The AR is a fun gun to shoot, and the ammo's cheap. That's why someone would want one! AR's are taking the place of MIA's and M1 garands on the firing line everyday in the hi-power matches (i personally would rather have one of the .30 cals if it were me) because they have proven to be VERY accurate if built right (big "if" there). Relaibility is all about the quality of the manufacturer and the ammo used. Never thought I would see anyone talking about needing something to be reliable on a jeep forum.
MudderChuck
New member
"(Big if there)" I guess there is something to be said for buying something marginally functional and turning it into something, that works well. At least the Jeeps, have a good platform to start with and don´t freak out the nieghbors, when you go outside with them.
Just think the 222. or the .243 works better as a round. They have been changing the barrel twist, bullet wieghts and powder mixes in the .223 forever and keep right on changeing, trying to get it right.
I´ve got a Steyr/Mannlicher .308, will shoot out of the box, as good as a 700, with most of the bells and whistles (though I did build my own trigger, group). Guess I´m just spoiled. Doesn´t excite the nieghbors, when I walk outside with it (looks like a deer rifle) though it is a plastic stock. Get my kicks, out of putting a round into a dime at 200 yards, not big magazines. I do have a Mini 14, with a guick point, for Varmints, rarley use it. Have a buddy with a 223. bolt action, shoots OK, not as good as the same rifle, in 222, don´t know exactly why, just seems to often, be the case.
Just think the 222. or the .243 works better as a round. They have been changing the barrel twist, bullet wieghts and powder mixes in the .223 forever and keep right on changeing, trying to get it right.
I´ve got a Steyr/Mannlicher .308, will shoot out of the box, as good as a 700, with most of the bells and whistles (though I did build my own trigger, group). Guess I´m just spoiled. Doesn´t excite the nieghbors, when I walk outside with it (looks like a deer rifle) though it is a plastic stock. Get my kicks, out of putting a round into a dime at 200 yards, not big magazines. I do have a Mini 14, with a guick point, for Varmints, rarley use it. Have a buddy with a 223. bolt action, shoots OK, not as good as the same rifle, in 222, don´t know exactly why, just seems to often, be the case.
Deerhunter30
New member
DIGITAL GAUGES
I did use the teeth to age that buck. My 5 1/2 guess was field judging by the size of his neck/shoulders, the sway in his back, and the sagging of his stomach. It was after looking at his lower jaw that he was aged at 4 1/2.
I did use the teeth to age that buck. My 5 1/2 guess was field judging by the size of his neck/shoulders, the sway in his back, and the sagging of his stomach. It was after looking at his lower jaw that he was aged at 4 1/2.
MudderChuck
New member
Judging the age of pigs is easier, they double in size most every year. :shock:
Good strong looking Buck, did you keep the hide? Was it worth treating?
Took another look at your picture, I´d still guess 5/6. It does depend often, on heredity and forage. Really well formed (4/5 often have the beginning of a new spike), but has a young face, the hair hasn´t started to fade yet.
I´ve got a laminated age card in my wallet, with the tooth sets and wear indicators.
Good strong looking Buck, did you keep the hide? Was it worth treating?
Took another look at your picture, I´d still guess 5/6. It does depend often, on heredity and forage. Really well formed (4/5 often have the beginning of a new spike), but has a young face, the hair hasn´t started to fade yet.
I´ve got a laminated age card in my wallet, with the tooth sets and wear indicators.
Deerhunter30
New member
I did not keep the hide but would like to do a deer hide next year if I can. I kept a large portion of that cape for the mount that I had done.
As far as aging the buck I have always been told that the antlers are the least of what you need to look at to age a deer. I have seen some monster headgear on a 2.5 year old deer and some little headgear on some 5.5 year olds.
As far as aging the buck I have always been told that the antlers are the least of what you need to look at to age a deer. I have seen some monster headgear on a 2.5 year old deer and some little headgear on some 5.5 year olds.
MudderChuck
New member
I was commenting on the full spikes, rather than the size of the antler. Looking at the base, which often opens like a flower, on fully mature Bucks. Different Bucks from different dames, mature at different rates, depending on forage, they also say, it´s a hormone thing. I usually look at the size, but there are runts and fast maturing Bucks. Not easy to judge, Like I said, guys with 20-30 years more practice than me, argue about it some. Most of the Bucks where I go, I know. Was around when they were born and have watched them mature. The strangers, that wander in, are sometimes hard to judge. Wrinkles in the base of the antler, the size and shape of the base, the number of small points, on how many spikes, the size, the shape, the color and yes I´ve shot the wrong deer. About five years back, shot a keeper, a spike walked into a bush, just at dawn and a deer walked out and stuck his head in the grass to eat. I shot, oops, wrong deer, happens. Should have waited till the end of the rut, if I was gonna shot that one.
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