More Versatility. More Elbow Room. More Jeep!

[mud4feet]

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3: The Gladiator. Build it and we will come. Oh, and don't screw it up with IFS for pete's sakes. It's a truck, build it like one.

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WE WANT THE GLADIATOR! WE WANT THE GLADIATOR! WE WANT THE GLADIATOR! WE WANT THE GLADIATOR! WE WANT THE GLADIATOR!

 

[TwistedCU]

WE WANT THE GLADIATOR! WE WANT THE GLADIATOR! WE WANT THE GLADIATOR! WE WANT THE GLADIATOR! WE WANT THE GLADIATOR!

BUT...

With not so much chrome. And hows abouts a base model that is low on luxury, yet still has performance options available to it.

I'm all about Rubicon-like performance with vinyl seats.

 

[mud4feet]

BUT...

With not so much chrome. And hows abouts a base model that is low on luxury, yet still has performance options available to it.

I'm all about Rubicon-like performance with vinyl seats.

X2,000,000

 

[currupt4130]

Hello everyone,

Sorry it's been a while since this thread has seen any activity. Keerit's moved onto another project so I'll be your inside guy now. I want to thank all of you for the warm reception!

Mud4feet, I wish I had the ability to give away Commanders. I'd love for you to have some first hand experience with it. That and I'd be driving one.

I look forward to your posts,

John B.

I'm really tempted to just go off on a wild rampage here but I'll keep my emotions under control. Anyway, as Mud said earlier, he hates it for what it is, it is nothing more than a jeep branded grocery getter. It does not sport the solid front axle of a capable jeep, comes with lower profile and less aggressive tires than any other model of jeep, and is targetted towards no one in the offroad community. If you were giving them away, I'd love to have one because it would be immediately sold for parts for my Wrangler.

To guys and girls like us we don't care how it drives on road, its how well it performs offroad that matters more than anything. We all live with mild road manners in exchange for the great offroad performance that Jeep has always been known for but a lot of us here feel that Jeep is compromising it's roots by taking the direction that is.

And the trail rating system, what a joke. Jeep used pictures of my friends Rubicon offroad to deny him warranty work. Keep mind the only picture they had was him driving up a hill with a few scattered rocks. And yet, they portray the Rubicon in their own adds as scaling bolder piles going up hill and even lifting a tire off the ground to show its prowess over other Wrangler models. You cant expect me to believe that Jeep actually tests its vehicles to perform well offroad. Theyve taken a set of standards which they believe to be "good enough" to perform on a gravel road with maybe a few potholes and a small fallen tree or two. Jeep as of recently hasn't built a vehicle targetted at the offroad enthusiast. And what I mean by that, is if someone were to take a Wrangler offroad (an icon of offroad ability) and damage something, there is no way it would be warrantied if the dealer really knew what happened. Therefore Jeep does not have a rig that is meant to be a dual purpose vehicle, rather vehicles that CAN perform well offroad, but should never be used for such purposes.

Oh, and I smell spam as well, that Meet the Mudds, crap, holy god that was lame... Someone tell me why they have mud on their faces? I get the obvious pun, but the Commander is portrayed in the video as a grocery getter with chrome rims and a nice wax job.

That is all for now.
-Sam

 

[Sparky-Watts]

I'm really tempted to just go off on a wild rampage here but I'll keep my emotions under control. Anyway, as Mud said earlier, he hates it for what it is, it is nothing more than a jeep branded grocery getter. It does not sport the solid front axle of a capable jeep, comes with lower profile and less aggressive tires than any other model of jeep, and is targetted towards no one in the offroad community. If you were giving them away, I'd love to have one because it would be immediately sold for parts for my Wrangler.

To guys and girls like us we don't care how it drives on road, its how well it performs offroad that matters more than anything. We all live with mild road manners in exchange for the great offroad performance that Jeep has always been known for but a lot of us here feel that Jeep is compromising it's roots by taking the direction that is.

And the trail rating system, what a joke. Jeep used pictures of my friends Rubicon offroad to deny him warranty work. Keep mind the only picture they had was him driving up a hill with a few scattered rocks. And yet, they portray the Rubicon in their own adds as scaling bolder piles going up hill and even lifting a tire off the ground to show its prowess over other Wrangler models. You cant expect me to believe that Jeep actually tests its vehicles to perform well offroad. Theyve taken a set of standards which they believe to be "good enough" to perform on a gravel road with maybe a few potholes and a small fallen tree or two. Jeep as of recently hasn't built a vehicle targetted at the offroad enthusiast. And what I mean by that, is if someone were to take a Wrangler offroad (an icon of offroad ability) and damage something, there is no way it would be warrantied if the dealer really knew what happened. Therefore Jeep does not have a rig that is meant to be a dual purpose vehicle, rather vehicles that CAN perform well offroad, but should never be used for such purposes.

Oh, and I smell spam as well, that Meet the Mudds, crap, holy god that was lame... Someone tell me why they have mud on their faces? I get the obvious pun, but the Commander is portrayed in the video as a grocery getter with chrome rims and a nice wax job.

That is all for now.
-Sam

Amen, Brother!!! Seems our friends from Jeep have been a bit lax in responding to our posts. Reminiscent of their response to the real Jeep community as a whole.:roll:

 

[JeepInfoCenter]

I do apologize for not responding earlier, I have taken all of your comments and forwarded them on. I wish I had some official information on the Gladiator that I could pass along. Unfortunately no information has been made official as to it going into production. I am sorry that you all feel this way, but in order for any business to stay alive it has to evolve to meet market demand. I know this doesn't make it better for you, but you do have to understand that in order to succeed you can't offer the same thing year after year.

Thank you for your understanding,

John

 

[Sparky-Watts]

... you do have to understand that in order to succeed you can't offer the same thing year after year.

BS. It's been working well for 5 decades for you. Not exactly the same product, but at least basically the same up until you put a car dashboard and car springs and shocks in the TJ. There was absolutely nothing wrong with the leaf springs in the Wranglers. You want to mess up a good thing, it seems. Go ahead and put IFS, or all-wheel independent suspensions in all of your grocery-getters, but leave the Wrangler alone!! It will continue to sell on it's reputation. If the yuppies don't like the ride, too bad. Let them buy a grocery-getter like the Waggy's or Cherokees or Liberty's or Commanders. Jeep has based it's sales on off-road vehicles since it's inception, why stop now? I'd no more take a Commander or a Liberty off road than I would a Cadillac.

 

[OutOfStep]

Its not about stopping evolution, its about offering something that is worth something, not just appearting to be worth something.

The Jeep warranty is a prime example. DC wants to cut back the warranty coverage time because "consumers do not find it valuable". Consumers don't find it valuable because the warranty is junk.

It's also about actually evolving a product instead of just copying someone elses evolution. Hummer people won't buy a Jeep because it looks like a Hummer; Jeep people definatly won't buy a Jeep just because it looks like a Hummer. You have to give people something more.

I think the main problem in this particular situation is that your advertising a grocery getter on an enthusiast forum. You should be posting on www.GroceriesNKids.com.

Actually though they may like to hear from you on www.pirate4x4.com, they're a very foreward thinking group.

 

[OutOfStep]

Plus no matter what you do the dyed in the wool guys will hate it, but as long as performace continues to increase you will find buyers

 

[currupt4130]

Outofstep, I'm with you on taking this to pirate, they would love this! I understand that DC has to make money, but most of us believe that they are doing it the wrong way. In essence DC is becoming a whoore. They are putting themselves out there and following a market image that they think will sell in order to gain profit. They are straying from the roots of the Wrangler, which is really what we are all upset about. I could give a damn less how many other grocery getters DC builds, but leave the Wrangler alone and da-gone-it, put leaf springs and a basic dash back on the thing!

What DC sees as improvements we see as downgrades. Their more car like interior for the TJ was bearable, but if it were an option, everyone here would have had a YJ or CJ dash. The coil springs are a good base I'll admit, but I still maintain there was no reason to switch. The famous D35c is an absolute nightmare to anyone who wheels. It is constantly a thought on their mind as to wether or not they will break it and loose a wheel because DC can't spare the little more time to put press on bearings to help retain an axle on a vehicle that is marketted as being trail rated. If it was really trail rated it would be able to get itself off the trail if it broke without having to strap a log to the bottom of the axle tube as a skid. Their warranty is a joke, the products are becoming crap, and no one likes the direction they are taking. I wont ever buy a Jeep straight from the factory at this point, all my other vehicles will be Chevrolet, they've got their head on straight.

 

[Sparky-Watts]

Take a look at what Toyota did to their trucks. What is the most desirable year for off-roaders when looking for a Toyota? Anything pre-1986. 1985 was the last year they made the solid front axle in Toyota 4x4's before going to the squishy problematic IFS. 4-Runners were basically a 4x4 truck with a removable shell and seats in the back that was just as capable off-road as the trucks were, but then they wussed them up and now they're nothing more than a yuppy grocery getter, too.

 

[Junkpile]

Ummm, excuse me guys but.....the roots of the Wrangler? hahahahaha:rofl:

You mean the YJ? They took a CJ and made it more carlike.....you know, so they could sell more of them.

Oh man, I can't even finish this post now. Nevermind, carry on.

 

[currupt4130]

i beg to differ on making a cj more car like. yea they changed the dash, but it in no way resembled a car. other than adding a track bar for safety reasons, what did they do junk? and say square headlights... i dare you

 

[Junkpile]

Pretty much everyting that AMC did in their initial redesign was to make it more mainstream. The goal was to make it more appealing to non Jeepers. they wanted to improve the onroad performance, and sacrificed offroad ability to make it happen. I love the YJ, but it started this whole downward spiral. Sure, you could blame it on the unibody XJs, but they were the evolution of the Eagle 4wd platform and performed far greater than expected.

Let's talk about those square headlights. How do you think diehard CJ owners felt when they saw those for the first time? It's a big joke now that everyone laughs at, but it was a total disgrace in 1987.

 

[Sparky-Watts]

Uh oh......

 

[randomjeeper]

Re: More Versatility. More Elbow Room. More Than Ugly.

okay, so i actually drive a grocery getter; but at least i know i can get to the grocery store if its snowing, etc :lol: .
as for the commander, i personally think its ugly. i'd rather buy an H3 :roll: . that being said, i don't care to check out the meet the mudds ad campaign.
right now the only new jeep i'd consider buying would be a tj but if DC messes around with it too much, it might be time to find another brand to become loyal to.

as for most of the other comments posted, i have to say :agree: .

 

[currupt4130]

ok maybe since i didnt know a thing about jeeps in 1987 ill give you that, im sure it was a disgrace to see the square headlights but the platform that the yj gained has turned out to be one of the better for building off of. they have leafs at all four corners, a better, stronger, wider, more rust resistant frame, zinc coated bodies, and a little more room.

this can be argued about any model of jeep really, why didnt they keep the cj2a around? cuz they wanted to try and sell more! why didnt the cj7 replace the cj5, because it was more consumer friendly. with each model change jeep has gone more towards selling to the masses. teh coils springs were the last big step.

 

[Wrangl3r93]

I do apologize for not responding earlier, I have taken all of your comments and forwarded them on. I wish I had some official information on the Gladiator that I could pass along. Unfortunately no information has been made official as to it going into production. I am sorry that you all feel this way, but in order for any business to stay alive it has to evolve to meet market demand. I know this doesn't make it better for you, but you do have to understand that in order to succeed you can't offer the same thing year after year.

Thank you for your understanding,

John

Shoot! sounds like he's scared to give us the numbers on the gladiator... i guess i would be too if i was in his shoes... this talk of evolution sickens me... WE ARE THE MARKET AND WE DEMAND A JEEP WORTH BUYING!

 

[Sparky-Watts]

ok maybe since i didnt know a thing about jeeps in 1987 ill give you that, im sure it was a disgrace to see the square headlights but the platform that the yj gained has turned out to be one of the better for building off of. they have leafs at all four corners, a better, stronger, wider, more rust resistant frame, zinc coated bodies, and a little more room.

Personally, I don't see the big deal over the freakin' headlights! They in no way affect the vehicle's capability or dependability, nor do they add anything that is detrimental to off-road use (such as air bags or anti-lock brakes). Why the outcry over a cosmetic issue like this? As far as the car-like dash in the TJ, personally, I don't care, I just like to poke fun at it. The part of it I don't like, however, is the airbag. As a former paramedic, I understand the importance of supplemental restraint systems, but as an off-roader, I would be terrified to drive a TJ the way I drive my YJ! Low speed impacts that set off airbags have been proven to cause much more serious injuries to drivers and passengers than high speed impacts. Couple that with having the expense of replacing the entire dash, windshield, and possibly the windshield frame anytime the airbag deploys, and it just doesn't seem like such a good plan to have them armed all the time. There should be a shut off for both sides of the air bag system, as there is for the passenger side in many vehicles.

If you want to cry about the shape of the headlights, you're missing the entire point. Personally, from what I've read and seen, the YJ is a better vehicle than the CJ mechanically. Aesthetics aside, give me a YJ over any other Jeep vehicle. Headlights don't make the vehicle......sheesh!

 

[Junkpile]

The only major mechanical part on a YJ that is superior to the CJ version is the front axle, and it wasn't introduced for the YJ to begin with. The rear AMC20 and D44s that CJs used would be my choice before that D35 anyday. An iron Spicer18, Dana20, or Dana300 is also stronger than that NP231 Tcase found under the YJ. How could you even compare it to the D300? Transmission? They use the same automatic, but there are a couple of CJ manual transmissions that I would gladly take over the French or Japanese offerings in the YJ. The six banger was a carryover from the CJ line so don't go screaming about the FI 4.0, it wasn't there in 87 and it's just a reworked CJ motor anyway

I will agree with Currupt about the frames and bodies, and the fact that you can have that frame with leafs already mounted at all four corners. The YJ is THE SWB Jeep to build, but in factory form they leave a little to be desired when compared to the version before OR after it when it comes to offroad performance.

The headlights don't matter while you are in the drivers seat, but they were a big departure from a very loooong tradition. Just like some of the things we complain about DC doing today.

And while I hate 4wd IFS systems, Jeep introduced the setup in the early sixties under the SJ lineup......it was(is) a Jeep thing, understand?