Good American Company?

[judge09]

mingez wrote:

I just wanted to say: That I have nothing to say about this. Enter "Gasp" smiley here ----->

Nice day, nice parade, alot of patriotic floats and then along comes a few WWII vets that some auto dealer or some bank has honoring them by having them in the float and here they are in the back of a Mitsubishi or Toyota or Honda.

The Jap Zeros that killed their buddies were made by the predecessors of some of these companies.
That just seems wrong to parade a WWII vet in a Japanese car!
I know that many of these have assembly plants here in America, but where to corporate profits go?

OK that might be taking it a little too far. After 60 years I dont think we need to lump the car companies with the same people who attacked Pearl Harbor. Their children should not be scared by their fathers' mistakes.

My grandfather fought in WWII and drives a Honda. I dont think we need to string him up for treason.

 

[Ritt]

RE: Re: RE: Best kind of video camera???

You all seem to be debating the American Worker but they really don't affect what's going on now. It's all about capital investment companies (investment groups buying and selling companies). We've been sold 3 times in 3 years and I'm sure our China facility was builit in one year to make our company even more attractive......called polishing a turd. After buying a company you divest for more profit or tax advantage. It's a huge chess game and the worker doesn't even enter into it. To make a company look more profitable, you don't ask your employes to work harder, you sell off a division or two.

If anyone is in an HR division you're next for outsourcing. My son's company is taking over Goldman-Sach's HR as well as Citi Bank then they will out source to India. Cool huh? The lunch box days are gone and if you're not working on a Masters you're going to be left behind with a minimum wage job for the future.

Your Jeep may have been made in America but I'll guarantee 90% of the parts were made off shore.

How many people here shop TARGET........................that's a French owned company :wink:

 

[firemanharry]

RE: Re: RE: Best kind of video camera???

nevermind

 

[90Xjay]

90Xjay wrote:

...That just seems wrong to parade a WWII vet in a Japanese car!...

judge09 wrote:

OK that might be taking it a little too far. After 60 years I dont think we need to lump the car companies with the same people who attacked Pearl Harbor.

I admitted to being "one sided" on this issue before I posted what you quoted of me, again, just my opinion and I NEVER suggested that anybody was guilty of treason, only that the disabled, very feebled WWII vets I saw were proped up in the back of Japanese cars and maybe did not even realize it. Just seems wrong and unpatriotic to me thats all.

Your grandpa is free to spend his money wherever he wants, he earned that freedom and in part the right to do so for all of us. God Bless him.

 

[wm69]

Unions have become monsters in this country. They were designed to protect workers, and instead the protect the worker's right to say "that's not my job so I'm not doing it". Phone company guys here won't change a light bulb because "that's not my job". As for "american quality", some things are still made with pride here, but most are thrown together and are just as much crap as stuff built overseas. I will NEVER buy anything but a Honda or Toyota (except my jeeps and we all KNOW what great masterpieces of quality and engineering they are, don't we?) unless their quality completely falls apart like all of the US manufacturers have. My grandfather was a GM dealer for 45 years or so, and you won't catch me driving any of their crap. It wasn't ever big stuff like engines or transmissions, but little stuff like leaks, guages that quit working, rattles, trim falling off, stuff that has never happened on my 12 year old Honda. The same grandad flew B29's over Japan in WW2. He looks at my car and says "that's been one hell of a car. They really know how to build them over there". Made in the USA meant quality 25-30 years ago, but not anymore. Take a firearm or car built in the 50's-60's and compare it to something made today. You can't use the "american made ='s quality" argument then and keep a straight face. The problem causing jobs to go overseas is all about value for the dollar, and you don't get that with overpriced union made stuff anymore. It's still crap, just crap made here and at 3 times the price. Am I unpatriotic? I don't think so. I'm just not gonna throw my money away so some union worker can make $80K/year sitting on his/her duff. As for Walmart, if you don't like it, don't shop there, but Walmart is what every corp wishes it could be. Most just aren't effecient enough to pull it off (no unions in walmart... hmmmm). People cry about WM's pay and benefits.....NOBODY FORCES SOMEONE TO WORK FOR OR SHOP AT WALMART. If you don't like it, work and spend your money elsewhere. I will not shirk them because they offer me the best deal for my money. I argued about this for a week on another board last week and I'm going to refrain from replying to this post again (minguez, where do you get your willpower?). Flame away........

Edited to add.....just as no person is forced to work or shop at walmart, no vendor is forced to sell them goods either. Vlasic wasn't forced to enter that deal with walmart, they did it to make money. No more greed with Walmart that with any vendor who deals with them. It's capitalism. Maybe you guys want to try communism or socialism....?

 

[90Xjay]

wm69 wrote:

NOBODY FORCES SOMEONE TO WORK FOR OR SHOP AT WALMART.

True, unless your town had a Wal-Mart come in and put other stores out of business and then you don't have much of a choice left but the internet or catalog sales

 

[graewulf]

RE: grille guard questions

wm69 wrote:

NOBODY FORCES SOMEONE TO WORK FOR OR SHOP AT WALMART.

True, unless your town had a Wal-Mart come in and put other stores out of business and then you don't have much of a choice left but the internet or catalog sales

They are doing just that here, and I'm glad.. K-mart was the alternative, and they are terrible! Wal-mart is way better, has better products, better selection, better employee attitude, and better pay & benefits (yes, better than K-mart or other retailers in the area).. so how is that a bad thing?

 

[LadyJeepFreak]

Okayyyyyyy we finally hit areas of this topic that I can give an opinion on!


Funny China and manufacturing is mentioned. My corportion is private (who I work for). We have six plants in the US and one subsiderary (sp) there as well. We have a plant in the UK, which I just visited last month and just broke ground in Suz Hou, China. Likewise, we have sales contacts who live throughout the world pulling in business from those areas where we don't have manufacturing locations.

Our three year plan is scheduled for next week and I can't wait to see what the growth plans are for both stateside and international.

So far, they have always promised us that international growth will not replace US workers as long as the sales are there. Also so far, they have been true to their word and have not laid off anyone throughout history, US or otherwise.

However, I do see lots of manufacturing firms going global for one reason or the other. The whole world is global now, if companies don't go global someone else will and put them out of business instead.

I do my part to improve my own stateside plant and work as hard as I can to maintain our profits and growth so I can be an asset and keep my job. My company pays me well to do so and I appreciate that in my rural location. I am somewhat of an unusual manager, being young and woman but I worked hard to advance to my current position. Sometimes I hate my job but in the long run, we exchange the good and bad and both come out on top or at least I feel that way most days.

I am management (middle) and considered overhead so I know the chances of my losing my job someday are there. The only positive side is that someone has to run the programs I run or we won't have as sucessfull of a plant and also there are organizations and customers that want to see these programs and see them sucessfull so as long as that need is there and I do my job I should be okay.

To me, it is the misinformed worker who doesn't give his or her part in the scheme of a corporation that is the one at fault for a company going under or branching international and closing stateside plants. Of course, all facilities have these workers and they make as much as the rest of us. It's not just that they can get a cheaper wage in another country or have less hassles from government regulations. Everything balances out in the long run if it is done right. Sure, the stateside employees may have to make adjustments and handle some change due to a company going international but the other option is to not have a job. Hopefully there are enough good workers and valuable assets that you can balance out the trash and still make profits.

Tomorrow is annual bonus day at our company. We have always had profit sharing with employees. This year we did very well, allowing all NAFTA (stateside) plants a four week pay bonus. This is more than we have seen in years, even with the money put out on international growth so something must be going right.

On the other hand, my mother works for WALMART the retail giant mentioned above. Before that, she worked for +20 years at Montgomery Wards. There, she was treated better and the retail atmosphere was different. All businesses have a different atmosphere, even those in the same industry.

Like many, I don't agree with some of Walmarts' business practices when it comes to thier employees. I understand thier sucesses and why they have them and don't fault them for what they have become but I can't help feeling a bit negative because of personal feelings.

It's hard to see your mother of 55+ years (who is the hardest worker I've ever seen) working two jobs because her full time job pays such a low wage. It's also hard to see her being pushed around daily at work because her employer has poor employee programs and they don't believe in the value of treating employees fairly and as a good company asset. I can't help feeling that they do not feel employees should be treated as decent human beings and compensated as such through schedules, pay and benefits.

Sure she could go out and find a different job, she has that choice. It's just not such an easy choice to someone who has worked in retail for thirty years and is over the age of 55. Such is the scheme of life.

Anyway, thanks for listening. BTW, I purchase things at all sorts of stores, international and otherwise. I don't have strong feelings about not shopping anywhere for anything.

LJF

 

[graewulf]

People cry about WM's pay and benefits.....NOBODY FORCES SOMEONE TO WORK FOR OR SHOP AT WALMART.

Interesting argument - Genuardi's recently opened a store in the area - they have no unions either. The local unions picketed the place for over a year with this same argument - the funny thing is, I talked to several people that left other major grocery stores in he area for Genuardi's and they said the pay, benefits, and employer attitude were far better at the non-union store. Makes you stop & think.......

My sister worked for Wal-mart for several years. She got better pay and benefits than most of the other jobs she worked at before that, and a higher starting wage.

 

[Green97TJ]

Google ads back

I wasnt going to touch this, and now Im sure one of you will tear apart whatever I say, just cuz thats how this thread is going. But here goes anyway.

Ive got some uncles who retired from union jobs, my dad is about at that point, and a brother that works union that would all like to know where that 80k a year for sitting on their butts is at. O wait, maybe its because they didnt, and still dont just sit on their butts. Either way, Im sure they'd take their pay compensation to make up for the missed wages of not getting that 80k a year. :roll:

And yes, maybe a lot less people are willing to work hard these days, but when the corporations dont give them any reason to its hard. My dad is a quality control inspector. When he started working for the company they turned out quality products and were proud of it. Now, almost everytime he rejects some of the products (meaning they get sent back and repaired before they leave the factory) someone over his head says "no thats ok, we'll sell it anyway" Now theres a good way to encourage the employees to maked quality stuff. But then, they're also in the process of moving that company to Mexico, so maybe they're just getting the consumer ready for the upcoming quality.

Nathan

Oh by the way, I wont argue that a lot of people take advantage of union protection and dont do much. I wont argue that many people dont care about if the product they make is quality or not. All Im trying to say is, as said before, dont lump everyone together, cuz there are still a lot of good people out there, union and non, that bust balls to PROUDLY make stuff in the USA!

 

[90Xjay]

wm69 wrote:Quote:
NOBODY FORCES SOMEONE TO WORK FOR OR SHOP AT WALMART.

90Xjay wrote:
True, unless your town had a Wal-Mart come in and put other stores out of business and then you don't have much of a choice left but the internet or catalog sales

graewulf wrote:

They are doing just that here, and I'm glad.. K-mart was the alternative,.... so how is that a bad thing?

I was speaking more specifically about local merchants( I agree,KMart stinks) who have had hardware, clothing, and other stores for years in these towns, many of these old business have helped build the towns into what they are only to have a wal-mart come in and put them out of business.
For instance, in Early,Texas the city has given a multi-million dollar incentive package to Home Depot to come in and there is a hardware/general merchandise store who has been there for over 50 years, sponsored the 4-H, schools and gave back to the community.
He will likely have great difficulty staying in business when Home Depot opens, small family business gone, mega merchandiser wins.

 

[TwistedCU]

I am a union worker, and I did make over $80K last year, and none of it was sitting on my butt (drive time excluded). I had to work a hell of alot of overtime to get it.

Unions have become monsters in this country. They were designed to protect workers, and instead the protect the worker's right to say "that's not my job so I'm not doing it". Phone company guys here won't change a light bulb because "that's not my job".

Question from your local friendly phone man here:
Why in the hell should I change a light bulb?

Sure, I don't do another guy's job, and he won't do mine, but there is more to it than just the union issue.

the union Issue: Simply put, if I do the maintenance man's job, we won't need a maintenance man.

The company issue: I can't change a stinking lightbulb at work. Why? because if I did, and I fell off a ladder or caught glass from a broken bulb in my eye or something stupid like that, I would be disciplined by my employer for doing work outside my job description. I can see it now -

"Well Harry, we have to give you 3 days off unpaid because you are not trained in building maintenance... and by the way, why weren't you out doing your job???

Think that's an exaggeration? it's not. This stuff happens.
**************
I tell you what folks, I'll keep working hard and do my best to raise my kids to do the same. You keep working hard and if you have kids do your best there too.

I'll keep trying to buy American when and where possible, you decide your children's fate and the fate of the conditions during your retirement.

Like the man said, OUT.

 

[mingez]

Swing out tire carrier

90Xjay, I'll chime in! Just no debate. No need to dangle that carrot! :lol:
And I do agree, that it's better to have constructive dialogue about a topic. That's always been my reason, but lately, the dialogue hasn't been so constructive...hence my oath.

But I will comment about both sides of the issues:

There's the arguement (and I'm not saying I agree with this stance) that by virtue of purchasing American product for patriotic reasons, assuming that product IS inferior, (which is debatable) you are sending the message that it's okay to have inferior product because you'll purchase it regardless.
By doing so, one suggests: You can continue selling said product inspite of it's quality, because I'm a patriot.

How does that work from a capitalists standpoint?

On the otherside of that, one could argue that buying based on nationalistic and patriotic factors is simply a part of "Market Climate" and is one of many factors in a capitalist system. So, you simply have to factor that into the equation as there is no way to avoid such tidings. And "choice" is an important factor in Capitalism whatever your reasons.

The world economy ebbs and flows like water. An impoverished nation can't afford high wages, and can get away with wages that seem like/are slave labor. But often that country's greatest resource is a large, cheap, labor force. In this case, assuming no criminal offenses are being committed (ie, child labor)-- you can't hate the player, you have to hate the game. It's just the weight of the world. And hey, It could be worse, we could be as economically sound as southeast asia. Instead, we are hard working, patriotic Americans who have more luxury (earned luxury) than those countries that the above mentioned companies are outsourcing to.

I, really don't have an opinion on this, because it's simply the way capitalism works. It's an organic system, and complaining about it is kinda like complaining about the weather. I see why buying American is a good thing, and I see why it might not be. I see why WalMart might be construed as a villian, and I can see the "Nobody's holding a gun to their head" arguement.

Do you really wanna purchase Xbox over Sony? You'll then be serving Microsoft's interests? That's even worse than shopping at WalMart.

I noticed South's signature with the link to WM's bad dealings, and have applauded him for that in the past. Like 90Xjay said, it's a shame that many smaller local mom and pop stores suffer the brunt of the convenience of "1 stop shopping". But like Grae said, it's a choice.
(Hell, I'm no better, because I am completely addicted to Starbucks, America's largest drug dealer. )

So I suppose the question is: Is it the player, or the game??? A little of both I suppose. All I know, is that if Target is French owned as suggeted, I'll never set foot in there again. :?

 

[90Xjay]

The world economy ebbs and flows like water

Good illustration and that is what concerns me and many others.
People working in China making our tv sets are making 50 cents per hour working in bad conditons (Under Communist Rule by the way)and the American worker living under freedom making a decent wage.

Will both workers be paid and treated equal somday?

 

[mingez]

Will both workers be paid and treated equal somday?

(I know the above question was rhetorical)
But I doubt it. Not to be a pessimist, but it's the nature of the beast.

Every great civilization faces this type of situation at some point in it's history.

 

[90Xjay]

Utimatley that would be a big plus for the Chinese and a big minus for the American competing with him. One could absorb the other, the Chinese economy is very strong, they are buying up crude and other raw materials as fast as they hit the market place.

 

[mud4feet]

RE: yj rear axle advice

..........they are buying up crude and other raw materials as fast as they hit the market place.

All the more reason we need to get to renewable resourses (right, XJNick!!).

 

[mingez]

RE: Do you heat with firewood?

All the more reason we need to get to renewable resourses (right, XJNick!!).

I second that one. :!:

 

[TwistedCU]

There's the arguement (and I'm not saying I agree with this stance) that by virtue of purchasing American product for patriotic reasons, assuming that product IS inferior, (which is debatable) you are sending the message that it's okay to have inferior product because you'll purchase it regardless.
By doing so, one suggests: You can continue selling said product inspite of it's quality, because I'm a patriot.

How does that work from a capitalists standpoint?

For the record, there is a difference between inferior products and POS's. I won't buy a piece of junk no matter where it is made. I do buy American cars however, and I will admit that the Japanese and German autos have had better reputations since the early 1980's. The US automobiles are getting better if not as good at this point (yes I know this is due to the pressure from the foriegn ones). I have bought them knowing that they are not as reliable, but this does not mean that they were not good quality cars. I have, however steered clear (pun intended :roll: ) of the ones with bad reputations. In this case I am not spending any extra money as the American cars have been becoming the less expensive choice.

On the other side of the coin, I am a firm believer that most everyday products made in USA are better quality than foriegn products (especially ones made in China) and are worth a few extra bucks.

All I know, is that if Target is French owned as suggeted, I'll never set foot in there again. :?

No question!

 

[TwistedCU]

help w/ 01XJ Steering Stabilizer Removal... (Special Tool?)

Oh, and one more plug for labor unions: During our last contract negotiations, we successfully negotiated the prevention of my company outsourcing hundreds of jobs to india. They wanted to lay off the costomer service folks and have calls routed to india, among other jobs. I wrote hundreds but it may have been more. Covad communications laid off over 200 people in colorado by doing that 2 years ago. Now people in india have their jobs. They voted out a union 3 years prior to that happening.

The single most important thing that a union does for you is give you a legally binding contract.

We overturned a huge layoff in New York over a year ago. The company said it had a surplus in workforce and had layoffs. After a bout in court the jobs were given back, back pay was paid, and now they are hiring more of those same positions in that area.

Yes, there are abuses, and yes they support the democratic party, which I don't need to tell you folks how that makes me feel , but corporations can be quite dirty when it comes to social responsibility.

40 hour work week/8 hour work days, holidays, good pay rates, workplace safety, pensions/retirement plans, workman's compensation, and FMLA are among the several things fought for and won through the sacrifice and work of unions. They will be comprimised if unions like mine did not continue to fight for them through negotiations, strikes, and fighting in Washington.