Wheel spacers: Good or bad??

Twisted,

Regarding the original thread, I agree with you. The expense for 32" over 31 is not worth it.

In reagrds to the derailment, the reason I particularly like 33" is that they are high enough to clear most obstacles (of course, you will still hit some others, but that's just part of offroading), but still maintain the center of gravity at a reasonable level. For rock climbing, you need at least 35" tires, and to some, they may be worth it. The other reason not to go larger than 33" tires (for me anyway), is that then you would have to swap axles, as they would eventually fail from the larger tires. This is much too much work for my taste, but a good investment if you are really into 4X4, as the weakest link in the Jeeps are the rear Dana and the axle from what I have read (I havo no experience with this one, as this is my first Jeep).

Now, back at home on my Nissan rig, I had 275/80 R15 MT's, which, according to the calculator I just found online, is equivalent (more or less) to a 33/10.5 R 15 (after increasing the size of the tire; previous tire size is somewhere between 30" and 31"). And to me (each person will most likely have a different opinion), it was a significant enough improvement to merit the change.

Now, for the regearing, a Jeep would probably run better if it were regeared (much more like the stock Jeep) for larger tires. But that does not mean you cannot run 33" tires without regearing, as even in this forum, you will find many users that have the 2.5L engine on stock gears running 33" tires. You will probably not see much use for 5th, but the gears will still be able to handle the larger tires.

Anyway, sorry for the deviation of the subject, and I respect all your opinions, as they depend mostly on what you want to achieve, what use you will give your rig, and how much you intend to spend.

Felipe
 
The other reason not to go larger than 33" tires (for me anyway), is that then you would have to swap axles, as they would eventually fail from the larger tires. This is much too much work for my taste, but a good investment if you are really into 4X4, as the weakest link in the Jeeps are the rear Dana and the axle from what I have read (I havo no experience with this one, as this is my first Jeep).
Many, many 33" tires have sat at the ends of broken stock Jeep Dana axles.
 

Many, many 33" tires have sat at the ends of broken stock Jeep Dana axles.

Good point... But going to 35" only increases the risk, right?

In any case, as I said earlier, to each his/her preference... I prefer the 33" tires, were as you may prefer the 31 or 35... It's just a matter of what each person likes.

Felipe
 
Good point... But going to 35" only increases the risk, right?

In any case, as I said earlier, to each his/her preference... I prefer the 33" tires, were as you may prefer the 31 or 35... It's just a matter of what each person likes.

Felipe
I think you're missing my point entirely. I really have no preference to any of them, but I am not willing so submit to the "you need at least 33's to run trails" claim. I also wanted to point out that while on many trails you can get away with a smaller tire, on many others the obstacles too large for a Jeep on 33's.

All I am saying is depending on the vehicle, it use, where it's taken, and what mods are needed for each tire size upgrade you can't just say that a 33" tire would be "the" tire for anyone.

Sure 33's are a good tire size. I'm not disputing that. Why else would so many folks run them?

but

Once you hit the 33" tire size or larger, you seriously compromise the ability of a vehicle to be an economically sensible, reliable, and long lasting daily driver. My personal (stress PERSONAL) view is that if a vehicle is going to be modified to be less streetable and more offroad worthy then why stop at a 33" tire.
 

I am not willing so submit to the "you need at least 33's to run trails" claim. I also wanted to point out that while on many trails you can get away with a smaller tire, on many others the obstacles too large for a Jeep on 33's..

I may have not expressed myself correctly; I was just pointing out that a 33" tire will give you a car that you can take offroading, while still maintaining a good balance, without having to run into the expensive mods like a big suspension lift, which in turn would require new shafts, possibly a SYE, regearing (I agree the Jeep would defenetly run better with new gears, but a lot of people keep the stock gears and they run 33" tires even with the 2.5L engine), a new axles (running a 33" is already increasing the possibility of breaking the rear axle in particular, but running a 35" will make it certain, IMHO), etc.

Once you hit the 33" tire size or larger, you seriously compromise the ability of a vehicle to be an economically sensible, reliable, and long lasting daily driver. My personal (stress PERSONAL) view is that if a vehicle is going to be modified to be less streetable and more offroad worthy then why stop at a 33" tire.

In my case, I would stop at 33" because of the stability of the Jeep and the other mods needed to run the 35" as stated above. The higher you go, the less stabke the Jeep is. Even a 1" lift (suspension more so than body, but both affect CG) will have a negative effect on stability. And high suspension lifts (with the exception of SOA) will give you less flexibility (in theory; there are some good flexing lifts out there, I know!).

Now, just to be clear on my thoughts, although I think a 33" tire is a good all purpose tire, it is because I like my Jeep to look aggressive. Some may like the 31" better. Others may not be willing to risk a 33" tire without regearing, or changing the rear Dana.

I do not claim to know much about Jeeps; this is my first one, and I have had it for less than 6 months. But I do like to do research, and the information I am giving is what I have found from the internet, magazines, my own offroading experience (not in a Jeep), and friends who have Jeeps (some use them as daily drivers, others only to offroad, and others both).

Twisted, my intention is not to get into an argument as to which is the perfect tire, as there is none. All tires (both sizes and types) have good and bad points. So I do agree that the 33" tire is not the do-it-all tire; that is not what I am saying. Same goes for the MT tire. But to me, for my needs and my preferences, I would go with a 33" tire (which is what I want to put in my Jeep). And I agree with you also that jumping from 31 to 32 is not really worth it. But (to me), going from 31 to 33 is.

By the way, the reasons I am runing 31" tires is that they came with the Jeep, and are fairly new, so since I am not going offroading here in Miami anyway, I will keep them until they wear out, as these HT are better suited for highway use anyway than the MT's I want to get.

Felipe
 
You have GOT to stop referring to Jeeps as "cars"...

and I prefer "discussion" over "argument" :lol:

This tire thing is making my head hurt. Want to "discuss" the Jeep -vs- car thing? :D
 
and I prefer "discussion" over "argument" :lol:

You are right; argument has a bad connotation. In Spanish (my first language) it is the other way around, so I keep saying the wrong one for the context...

You have GOT to stop referring to Jeeps as "cars"...


This tire thing is making my head hurt. Want to "discuss" the Jeep -vs- car thing? :D

now THAT I agree on... Last time I called my Jeep car, it starting acting up until I apologized! :D

Not that it is an excuse, but (again) the word for SUV and Car in Spanish is the same. But I apologize to my Jeep once more... :purple:

Felipe
 

You are right; argument has a bad connotation. In Spanish (my first language) it is the other way around, so I keep saying the wrong one for the context...



now THAT I agree on... Last time I called my Jeep car, it starting acting up until I apologized! :D

Not that it is an excuse, but (again) the word for SUV and Car in Spanish is the same. But I apologize to my Jeep once more... :purple:

Felipe

I figured that it was something like that.

Jeep, YJ, A nickname you've given it. Any of these work, but car and SUV... they just don't sound right when referring to a Jeep. I guess at one time a Jeep was an SUV. The original perhaps, but now when SUV includes the likes of the Honda CRV and Suzuki Vitara that just doesn't "go"
 
.......................but (again) the word for SUV and Car in Spanish is the same....................

Felipe

I'll bet "Jeep" in Spanish is still "Jeep"!!!!:lol: :lol: :lol: If not, it SHOULD be!!!!!:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Although I believe the Jeep to be the only true SUV (Sport UTILITY Vehicle), I hate associating them with that designation...........brings up visions of soccer moms.........
 
I have watched this debate with some interest, because I knew it would spark one or two of you up.

Jason, TC is right the cost to gains ratio isn’t worth it. You’re not only talking 4 tires and rims but 5…what happens if you get a flat, and need to put the spare on the front? Spacers? There again the cost to gains ratio is not worth .5 (1/2 inch) axle gain in height. Plus the added stress to axles, outer bearings, spindle packs, front short shafts, and the added steering problems makes them a bad investment.

You’re better off saving the money and getting 4 inch lift and buying 33 inch tires when you’re ready then trying to fit 32’s. your 31’s will get you just as far and will teach you more than paying the big bucks just to put on 32’s.

Now for the derailment side….


As most of you know my backyard is Moab, I have seen so many different type of vehicles out there that most of you couldn’t imagine from near stock rides to trail only buggies worth hundreds of thousands of dollars. It sometimes seems like a game, who can throw the most money at their rigs just to show off to the locals. But that aside… of the 10 years of playing down there I have seen one (street legal) vehicle rule the rocks, and that is XJ’s on 33’s pushing lockers front and rear. Remember all I said street legal here, so don’t start arming your selves with rocks just yet…


Because it takes a lot of lift to even fit 33’s on XJ’s, 35’s are out of the question unless you like cutting your daily driver up. They win because they have the length to climb the 5+ obstacles (Pritchet Canyon/ The rock pile) (Behind the rocks/White knuckle hill). It’s not tire size but driving skill. Its learning what your ride can do with what she’s wearing right now.

A stock Rubicon comes with 31’s and there more than capable to do the Rubicon trail in stock configuration. Even on 35’s my jeep had a heck of a time doing the Rubicon trail last year. This year my little jeep will get new shoes and I am thinking 33x12.5 Toyo’s. One for better gas economy and second to make sure she fits inside our new 5th wheel. And I have no doubts that I will still be able to do all the trails down in Moab, it might make me start thinking about my routes more and that will just improve my driving skills.

We lift our rides to fit bigger tires under so we can go over larger obstacles with our differentials. There is a cost to height ratio here. 32”s are the cutoff point, 32’s with stock gears is “some-what” livable, but after that the loss of power factors in heavy. Budget lifts will only get you so far but to fit 33’s you need to invest some money in a good lift. And in my humble opinion 32’s are not worth the investment, 31’s, 33’s, 35’s to 37’s or 38’s
Now you all can start throwing your rocks.
 

I'll bet "Jeep" in Spanish is still "Jeep"!!!!:lol: :lol: :lol: If not, it SHOULD be!!!!!:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Although I believe the Jeep to be the only true SUV (Sport UTILITY Vehicle), I hate associating them with that designation...........brings up visions of soccer moms.........

As a matter of fact, Jeep = Offroading SUV (short wheel base, 2 door kind of SUV... Be it Nissan, Toyota, Ford, whatever)
 
I have watched this debate with some interest, because I knew it would spark one or two of you up.

Jason, TC is right the cost to gains ratio isn’t worth it. You’re not only talking 4 tires and rims but 5…what happens if you get a flat, and need to put the spare on the front? Spacers? There again the cost to gains ratio is not worth .5 (1/2 inch) axle gain in height. Plus the added stress to axles, outer bearings, spindle packs, front short shafts, and the added steering problems makes them a bad investment.

You’re better off saving the money and getting 4 inch lift and buying 33 inch tires when you’re ready then trying to fit 32’s. your 31’s will get you just as far and will teach you more than paying the big bucks just to put on 32’s.

Now for the derailment side….


As most of you know my backyard is Moab, I have seen so many different type of vehicles out there that most of you couldn’t imagine from near stock rides to trail only buggies worth hundreds of thousands of dollars. It sometimes seems like a game, who can throw the most money at their rigs just to show off to the locals. But that aside… of the 10 years of playing down there I have seen one (street legal) vehicle rule the rocks, and that is XJ’s on 33’s pushing lockers front and rear. Remember all I said street legal here, so don’t start arming your selves with rocks just yet…


Because it takes a lot of lift to even fit 33’s on XJ’s, 35’s are out of the question unless you like cutting your daily driver up. They win because they have the length to climb the 5+ obstacles (Pritchet Canyon/ The rock pile) (Behind the rocks/White knuckle hill). It’s not tire size but driving skill. Its learning what your ride can do with what she’s wearing right now.

A stock Rubicon comes with 31’s and there more than capable to do the Rubicon trail in stock configuration. Even on 35’s my jeep had a heck of a time doing the Rubicon trail last year. This year my little jeep will get new shoes and I am thinking 33x12.5 Toyo’s. One for better gas economy and second to make sure she fits inside our new 5th wheel. And I have no doubts that I will still be able to do all the trails down in Moab, it might make me start thinking about my routes more and that will just improve my driving skills.

We lift our rides to fit bigger tires under so we can go over larger obstacles with our differentials. There is a cost to height ratio here. 32”s are the cutoff point, 32’s with stock gears is “some-what” livable, but after that the loss of power factors in heavy. Budget lifts will only get you so far but to fit 33’s you need to invest some money in a good lift. And in my humble opinion 32’s are not worth the investment, 31’s, 33’s, 35’s to 37’s or 38’s
Now you all can start throwing your rocks.


OK, Utah, here's my rock.....................that's about the best dang advice I've heard in a long, long time!:beer:
 
As a matter of fact, Jeep = Offroading SUV (short wheel base, 2 door kind of SUV... Be it Nissan, Toyota, Ford, whatever)

Okay I gotta draw a line here. Putting Jeep on the opposite side of an equals symbol from those other manufacturers, well that's just plain blastphemey.

Good greif it's getting worse :lol:

Utah, this pretty much summarizes what I was getting at throughout this thread. Well said:
We lift our rides to fit bigger tires under so we can go over larger obstacles with our differentials. There is a cost to height ratio here. 32”s are the cutoff point, 32’s with stock gears is “some-what” livable, but after that the loss of power factors in heavy. Budget lifts will only get you so far but to fit 33’s you need to invest some money in a good lift.
One thing though, I disagree on the 32's.

I have had 2 separate Jeeps that I had run 32's on and both of them had enough lift for 33's, but the stock gearing was the #1 deciding factor in staying with the smaller 32's on both of them. Why step up to 32's from 31's on those? Because I already had enough lift and the gearing was liveable with them.

There are so many factors involved in deciding which tire size is right for which rig, but one thing is for sure...

None of it means diddly when you have no time to wheel. I'm dying to get out again. Other than a run down to GWNF for some muddy trails it's been over a year since I had some serious fun offroad.
 

I just wanted to say, I know I haven't said much (if anything) since the original post - mainly because I'm new to this and have very little to add to the debate. I have been keeping up with all of your replies and I appreciate all of the advice/suggestions and I'm trying to soak up as much knowledge as I can. It sounds like I'd be better off sticking with 31's for now (once I get rid of these 30s ;) ). On a side note, does anyone know if the 31" BFG Mud Terrains are 'true 31s'? Just curious...

None of it means diddly when you have no time to wheel. I'm dying to get out again. Other than a run down to GWNF for some muddy trails it's been over a year since I had some serious fun offroad.

Have time to make a trip to Paragon in the not-too-distant future? They're still open on weekends and if you need a partner I'm up for a return trip (so long as you won't be too bored sticking to greens and easy blues :) ).
 
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