Propaganda

[laxpug19]

Alright Folks. Its 7:30 am on a saturday. I have to be at work at 8 and i woke up a little too early. But this has been on my mind for about a week or so. Propaganda has been a way to get a countries citizens into supporting the war the men(back in the day) and women now (only in the select few countries). I mean, i dont want to offend anybody. But My grandfather was a WWII veteran. Fighter Pilot for the USAF. That is besides the point of this thread. My father and i were having a talk about me and my kids(in the future, Jesus im only 17) and he said he was brought up to hate the Japanese. He said along with everyone else. My father was born till way after the war, 1954 and he was brought up to hate them. My father now is a different person, humble and nice to everyone and thing God put on this earth. My father served in Vietnam for roughly 1 1/2 years and vowed to never tell his children to hate a race. But hating a race of people is not the point of this topic. Where is the propaganda today?! There is nothing in this country i see saying we should be in this war. Maybe thats the reason 70% of the country wants out. Im proud to say im part of the 30% that says "we started this s#!$ lets finish it"

I think its too early, i hope i got my point across, and i would like to here from some of the older, but not too old(sparky) about what you feel about this.

j/k spark

 

[dropseys]

Well the propaganda was 9/11 and the war on terrorism, then the weapons of mass destruction..... base line it changes every year we are there. I believe its time for us to get out. The problem with the war is we are not doing anything besides losing lives every day. We removed the powers at the base of Iraq's problems, and now they have people killing americans every day there. The citizens know who is involved in these attacks on our troops and aren't helping us. Its time to let these people fight for themselves. They have been fighting for centuries and there is no chance its ever going to stop. Our government is using the excuse that we have to get things settled and its total BS. And it seems like every day our troops are being accused of slaughtering inncoent people, raiding wrong houses, etc. I think thats a sign they don't want us there. Sorry, but I when I was at the police department, i watched several of our guys get ripped away from the families and jobs for 18 months at a time, and that was 18 months on ground in Iraq or Afghanistan, plus whateever training and predeloyment stuff in the U.S. This war is doing more damage than good at this point, and its time for us to move on and Iraq to take responsibility for themselves.

 

[TwistedCU]

I've said it so many times I feel like it's a recording:

We can't win the way we're fighting now. An urban war like this cannot be won. We either need to bomb the hell out of them (i.e. Germany, Japan (not the nukes, the other bombing we did), Afghanistan, etc) or quit.

You can't win a war playing Mr. nice guy. War isn't nice... it's hell as the saying goes.

 

[Laph]

IT would be alot easier to fight and keep lives from being lost in Iraq if they had the border from Syria and Iran watched and guarded but I think that if they showed they could control that border then they would have to control our own border.

 

[mud4feet]

Laxplug19……your post intrigued me, for various reasons. First, because it was from one so young……..and y’all are our future, whether we like it or not!!! Another of which is the proximity in age of your Dad and I (I was born in ’53). I, too, have changed through the years. We were ALL told to hate, first the Japanese (and Germans, too), then it was the Russians, Cubans, and Vietnamese, and now, it seems, it is anyone of Arab descent. Although I was blessed (had to be divine intervention – can’t explain it otherwise) to avoid conscription into the “VietNam Conflict”, I truly admire your father for his service and for his epiphany in regards to the “hate”. They were very troubling times for us all.

I was 10 years old when John Kennedy was assassinated……..and the Warren Commission would have us believe that one person fired a single bullet that passed through Kennedy’s neck, John Connally’s shoulder and wrist, and come out unscathed………not a single scratch on it. Even as a 10 year old, having fired guns and seen the resulting havoc, I found this very hard to believe. I don’t believe it to this day. Perhaps this was some of the “propaganda” you spoke of??

I’m truly sorry to hear that you are so proud to be part of the 30% you mentioned in regards to the “Iraq War”. I am proud to say that I am a part of the 70% and have been a part of it since it was probably less than 1%. More propaganda. Somehow, we’re supposed to believe that it’s justified invading an independent country because some maniacs in another country flew planes into our buildings. I don’t buy that either……..never have. It’s no wonder that the whole world hates us.

You mention WWII……..whole different story. We had a maniacal dictator (Hitler) who definitely showed that he was out to conquer the world and, in the process, eliminate a race (or religion) of people from the face of the earth. The Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor (pretty obvious threat). Our country responded and we defeated the threat…….and we remain, to this day, the only people on this planet that have ever deployed nuclear weapons……..not exactly a prideful thing but that is another debate entirely.

Now we have a debate on global warming, and there is propaganda galore. Having lived on this planet for more that 50 years, I have seen changes………..and for the most part, they are not good. I have also seen what greed will do to people and the extents they will go to to justify their want for MORE. In 1973, the cartel familiarly known as OPEC showed us what our dependence on fossil fuels will bring. I shamefully admit that my generation has dropped the ball big time. The solutions proposed have ranged from “ethanol” fuels (in the mountains, we call it “corn licker”!!) to nuclear power (yeah, right, and all the waste has a half-life of, what, 500,000 years!!!!!! Here ya’ go, grandkids kids kids kids!!!!!). I cannot believe that with the technology we have today, we cannot harness the vast energy of the sun!! If the sun quits shining, gas prices are the least of our problems! Perhaps your generation will pick up the ball that my generation dropped and keep on dribbling toward a better planet.

I have rambled long enough. I will be flamed……..I realized long ago that my mindset is not that of the “collective” Jeepz. All I would ask of you is that you watch less TV, read less “Print Media”, and listen to your father more. Experience counts for more than all the education and “media” combined, in my book. And keep your eyes and mind open.

Happy Earth Day,
Old geezer mud

 

[90Xjay]

an administration does not need as much propaganda when they have had sweeping powers given to them, IE the Patriot Act, which was passed without I would guess less than 10% of Congress even reading through it.

Other than that getting off my chest, I agree with what TC said.

 

[Sparky-Watts]

The war is not about the freedom of the Iraqi people. It is not about WMD's. It is not about taking Saddam out of power. It is not about defeating terrorism. It is not about setting up a democracy in Iraq. Plain and simple: The war in Iraq is about making money for Haliburton and those associated with it.

You want propaganda? Listen to Bush talk about why we're in Iraq, and why he feels it's a winnable war. I'm not sure you understand fully the meaning of the word "propaganda", or maybe it's just your rambling style of writing didn't get it across to me. If that's the case, I apologize.

Old (but not as old as Mud) Fart,

Sparky

 

[90Xjay]

Old (but not as old as Mud) Fart,

Sparky

few are.....urple: urple: urple:

 

[David]

I don't want to address our current international conflict per se, but this posting brings up an excellent point that I haven't seen explored in the media. Until at least WWII, the emotions of the populace were exploited to justify a war. Now, our wars are fought on more intellectual grounds. Each individual is asked to make the intellectual decision regarding our national policy, and the war is fought against an entity (a nation, an "-ism"--e.g., terrorism, extremism, communism--) where we are taught to be at war with what the entity stands for, but not necessarily the people associated with it. For instance, we may hate terrorism, or even terrorists, but we don't--and shouldn't--make terrorism synonymous with Arabs or Islam. It's easier to hate than it is to think, but thinking, it seems to me, is a better path.

 

[cewtwo]

I was born in '53. I was never really taught to hate.

My Father had his views and expressed them. He would always take us kids to the side afterwards and apologize to us. He would tell us that hate is a strong emotion and hard to discount. He would tell us not to take views of hate too seriously.

My Mother would also take us to the side after a tirade. She would explain the same things in her way. I never heard her discount anyone for any reason.

Remember the musical "South Pacific?" One of the songs was a demonstration of public prejudice, so it is always a prevalent act. After all, we want to belong...

 

[ms018kmf]

First off I don't want to **** anyone here off, sorry if I do. Life is the most fragile and prescious thing we have. I know they could care less if we all got blasted to the stone age but will an armed occupation change the way they feel about us? We lost 9-11 the day it happened, that was a fight that should have been fought by intelligence agencies long before the planes hit. How many more terrorists do we have to kill to bring all of our friends and soliders back to life? It won't work, however, we are producing an exponential number of people who will gladly fight us until death. Imagine a generation of children who walk through city streets and school halls stained with blood, their childhood memories a warzone. Death is the norm for them, their families and their friends. I don't think we can un-teach the lessons they are learning and one day each child will be of an age where they will choose to do something about it. Our military is designed for defence, offence or holding ground. The term "Peacekeeping force" seems almost sarcastic to me. They are our friends and family and we owe them better than this. Don't get me wrong, if we see an Iranian, North Korean or whatever piece of machinery trucking up to our border ice the sucker! Until then keep our military personnel out of harm's way. I know that gives them time to "hit" us first but what we have done under the term of a "pre-emptive strike" is far beyond our authority.