Petition to save Johnson Valley
- Thread starter TallJeeper
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Red Neckerson
New member
I have seen it on another site and have signed it.
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redrooster
New member
I support the military too, but how much land do they need for training? How many bases do the army and marines already have in California? More than enough for desert training.
BRAC is steady closing bases every year. How can they justify expansion?
BRAC is steady closing bases every year. How can they justify expansion?
redrooster
New member
No, I have never served. My two grandads, father and brother are all vets, and I work with the Army and Marine Corps every day. I have the utmost respect for the military, but that doesn't mean that just because they say they need something we should just hand it over without question.
Desert training is important, the thing is they already have plenty of places to do it. Just off the top of my head, the Army has Ft. Irwin (NTC) and Sierra. The Marines have Pendleton, Miramar, Barstow and Twentynine Palms. Seems like they have access to plenty of desert training. They can leave Johnson Valley alone. There's plenty more desert to train in.
Desert training is important, the thing is they already have plenty of places to do it. Just off the top of my head, the Army has Ft. Irwin (NTC) and Sierra. The Marines have Pendleton, Miramar, Barstow and Twentynine Palms. Seems like they have access to plenty of desert training. They can leave Johnson Valley alone. There's plenty more desert to train in.
Red Neckerson
New member
Same as redrooster. I have much respect for our military. Without them we would not be speaking English today. I have also, friends and family that are Vets from Iraq to WW2. No I have never served.
But to take more land for training? I don't know....
But to take more land for training? I don't know....
This is a pretty difficult issue for most of us as we've found most offroaders are patriotic first and wheelers second.
But, to help folks be a bit more informed in their decision making processes, let me clarify a bit.
The land in question is not an offroad park, it is a large area under the BLM's purview and is public land for our, yours and my use. This area serves the needs of many diverse groups not limited to just offroading. The movie industry uses it as do rock hounds, mining interests, amateur aircraft, model rocketeers, and many others which I'll refer to as stakeholders.
This petition is not to deprive the military from any level of expansion whatsoever, nor is it's purpose to cause the military any difficulties in their expansion process. In fact, it's goal and ours is just the opposite. We want to help the military garner the area they need and in a direction that is the most favorable to all parties concerned. The issue revolves around the military needing to expand eastward or the exact opposite side of the base away from Johnson Valley.
Now, if you were really serious about the military having what they need in the way of land, you'd be up in arms over the Sheephole Wilderness area that they now need a part of. It was originally used by Patton as a tank training ground and then somehow arbitrarily designated as Wilderness when we weren't looking. All we're trying to do is give the military back what was once theirs.
If you would take the time to read the petition, a fair bit of this is spelled out and deserves a bit of consideration.
They (the military) need our help in this because they can not directly approach the legislators to get the area they really need de-designated from it's Wilderness status. However, with enough support from everyone, we can make a case for them, but it's going to take a lot of signatures to get it done.
Finally, I need to stress that we are not at odds with the Military over this. We are trying as best we can to educate, inform, and motivate everyone so that the issue is very clear and path to a good compromise that gets them what they need is well defined.
Please, take the time to read the petition and understand what the issues really are before you make the decision that we are not doing a good thing here for the stakeholders, the surrounding communities, and the military.
jimbotaylor73
New member
But if the military takes it over, how is that all working together? how is that helping off roaders? it will be fenced off, bordered off, and none of the previous mentioned users/organizations will be allowed anywhere near it.
The confusing part is they have thousands of acres in the area already; parts of Landers, Yucca Valley, Johnson Valley, and way out in the middle of nowhere, that they are not using...at all...but it sits there, signed off that if you cross those borders you could be in big trouble. Question is why do they need more, and the exact areas so many different organizations use for recreation?
We are all for helping military train for the job they need to do, that is important, yes. we have family members that are/were Marines, Navy,Air Force, and Army. If you live here, you have friends that are in the military stationed at this base. We are not against the military, or them doing their job.
It's just that they already have thousands of acres all around that same area, that they don't use. Are the areas in Johnson Valley that they want going to be used for ANY training? In addition, the Hammers are only a few miles off the main highway, how can they do any SAFE training right there?
If you go driving out and exploring in the area, you will see all the area they have blocked off for miles and miles, and never use, it sits empty, vacant land. They have their desert mini city for training, and their bombing ranges already. And trust me, when they are doing the bombing practices it rumbles the houses for miles around. They can't use the area near the Hammers for a bombing range as its too close to houses and the highway. So why do they want THIS section? That is what we don't understand. If there is a way to work together, sure, let's do it, but at this point, the base is not meeting anyone halfway. They want the land, and that is all there is to it. When there is plenty of vacant desert land here, that isn't used for recreation, so why pick one of the largest/best recreation areas in So CA? For example, from the back side of the base clear out going toward Kelso....what is there? NOTHING. And off roaders don't even use that area. why doesn't the base use it instead? why do they need more, when they don't use thousands of acres they already own?
If they take over that area, all the organizations, families, etc that use the area for different activities will not be able to enjoy it. Say goodbye to many organizations that go out there for a good cause and fund raisers like the Morongo Basin Search and Rescue Desert Run.
The confusing part is they have thousands of acres in the area already; parts of Landers, Yucca Valley, Johnson Valley, and way out in the middle of nowhere, that they are not using...at all...but it sits there, signed off that if you cross those borders you could be in big trouble. Question is why do they need more, and the exact areas so many different organizations use for recreation?
We are all for helping military train for the job they need to do, that is important, yes. we have family members that are/were Marines, Navy,Air Force, and Army. If you live here, you have friends that are in the military stationed at this base. We are not against the military, or them doing their job.
It's just that they already have thousands of acres all around that same area, that they don't use. Are the areas in Johnson Valley that they want going to be used for ANY training? In addition, the Hammers are only a few miles off the main highway, how can they do any SAFE training right there?
If you go driving out and exploring in the area, you will see all the area they have blocked off for miles and miles, and never use, it sits empty, vacant land. They have their desert mini city for training, and their bombing ranges already. And trust me, when they are doing the bombing practices it rumbles the houses for miles around. They can't use the area near the Hammers for a bombing range as its too close to houses and the highway. So why do they want THIS section? That is what we don't understand. If there is a way to work together, sure, let's do it, but at this point, the base is not meeting anyone halfway. They want the land, and that is all there is to it. When there is plenty of vacant desert land here, that isn't used for recreation, so why pick one of the largest/best recreation areas in So CA? For example, from the back side of the base clear out going toward Kelso....what is there? NOTHING. And off roaders don't even use that area. why doesn't the base use it instead? why do they need more, when they don't use thousands of acres they already own?
If they take over that area, all the organizations, families, etc that use the area for different activities will not be able to enjoy it. Say goodbye to many organizations that go out there for a good cause and fund raisers like the Morongo Basin Search and Rescue Desert Run.
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