Party lines and good (at least might have been) men lost...

TwistedCU

New member
Being a worker in a union shop, I am a rare conservative type who is most interested in seeing the constitution remain our guidance. I hear the "yellow Dog Dems" (that is an old phrase that means they would rather vote for a yellow dog than a republican) views on a daily basis. Then I listen to talk radio and hear a few guys that I think are in love with Bush. There seems to be no middle anymore. That conservative/constitutional interest (not a party-line republican interest) is being challenged more and more on a yearly basis from both of our political parties. I have been both a registered Democrat and a registered Republican, but I truly believe that we really don't have much of a choice today. Every time any politician seems dedicated to upholding the constitution and keeping federal government small from either party, they are made out to be nuts by both political parties and the media - Dean, McCain, Buchannon to name a few. Heck even Al Gore was a conservative Democrat before he teamed up with Slick Willie. It's true and some of you all wouldn't believe the things he originally ran on like he was pro-life for example. Well they whipped that ol boy into shape didn't they :roll:

They have monoplolized our government for too long and although I believe Bush to be the lesser of two evils (my opinion folks - don't flame my OPINION), I very well may cast a protest vote to someone else. I know it is a vote wasted but I'm just so damned sick of politicians having a platform leveled by their parties. You get out of line the media will be all over you. You don't change your stance on this issue we'll cut off your support. Howie Dean was made out to be a complete idiot for that scream while Clinton was glorified even after affairs, whitewater, etc. John McCain was made out to be the hot-tempered angry white male, and Buchannon was made out to be a whack job because he was a Christian and the spin was that he would not be able to maintain a separation of church and state. The difference between them and Clinton is Clinton was the "perfect Democrat" while the 3 mentioned above strayed from their political party's line a bit.

Sadly it will be at least another 4 to 8 years before the next poor bastard tries to run for the office with solid ideals, but most likely they'll make him out to be a homo-phobe or male chauvanist or a pooch screwer.

It's just so painfully obvious how strong our governent has become and how deep the influence of out politicians in every aspect of our country. Freedoms are in serious jeopardy and the more I think about it, I may just vote against all incumbants across the ballot, voting for any independants, greens, libertarians, or moonies I see on it. What a beautiful thing it would be to get all or most of these senators and congressmen out of thier offices and some new blood in there. A pipe dream I know.

I can't believe you read this whole thing but thanks for letting me rant.

Harry
 

slick willie, haven't heard that in awhile..heh
 
Twisted, you didn't mention the little guy with the big ears who made some very good points - Perot! I think the cause of most of this is because all these guys are/were LAWYERS!!!!
By the way, after reading your post......would you be interested in running in '08???? You make good sense to me!

mud
 
As the wise man once said "Politicians are some of the best men money can buy". The goverment has become the sifi story like the robot that evolved into a self thinking self protecting being. No longer serving the master "we the people" but governing us with out concern of our wants and needs. There is no on or off switch. There is no controling it. Our votes do not count any longer, that was proven last election when the Surprem Court put their choice for the president into the white house. I too have a hard task of setting my mind on The Man for the job this fall. Lesser of two evils seems to be the only choice we are given cause no great men are running and even I wonder are there any great men left. Was there ever any great men? I know Kerry is like a pain of glass there seems to be nothing there to view. It is like you know he is there but what is he and what does he mean. Then there is Bush yea he is just the other side of the coin. He is like a thick plate of tile. He is there but you can not see through him at all. He's like a riddle and there seems to be no cold hard answer for his way of doing some of the stuff he does. As for the other guys well you know the vote cast for any thing but the big two are just wasted votes cause if we all voted for Nader he will still loose cause the elect votes are all that count and to vote for other than the big two would mean a lost pay check for the boys with the power of a vote and they aint going down that road. Wow yet another Jeepz can of worms tug :wink:
 

TC, I think the most important thing you forgot to mention is this: Your vote doesn't mean diddly squat. Neither does mine. Take a look back at the last election fiasco. The Electoral College is an antiquated, reticent failing of our government, and should be eliminated. It serves absolutely no purpose anymore, other than to give the election to the guy that lost the popular vote. Get rid of the Electoral College, and voting in the polls will mean something again. Until then, it only serves to give the uneducated public the right to say "I voted for So-and-So" or "At least I didn't vote for that low-life." Back when the country was defined by the distance a horse could travel in a day, the Electoral College served a purpose...getting the votes from one end of the country to the other took months. Now it takes nano-seconds, and there is no need for the EC, yet it is still there, poised again to give yet another loser in the polling booths the seat in the Oval Orifice...errr....Office.
 
There seems to be no middle anymore.
...although I believe Bush to be the lesser of two evils...
...some new blood...

You have hit the nail on the head TC. Not able to vote here sucks since I'm only here on a student Visa, but I do try and follow the political scene closely especially during the election times. The 2 party system seems destined for the type of scenario TC has described, because politically there really are no big losers. I realize that 1) There is no perfect system of government and 2) The current system is unlikely to change but...the more I become aware of how the system works here the more I like the Canadian system I grew up under (I repeat I know it's not perfect either). More variety in the parties (true variety) with sometimes as many as 4 legitimate contenders in the federal election. You have a chance to actually change how a party conducts themselves and what other parties will strive for. Anyhow, I think you're right TC it is a frustrating situation.

Cheers,
Geoff
 
What is freedom?
Freedom is the right to use your abilities to not only be a success, but to also be a failure. Without the freedom to fail, a person will never be driven to succeed.
So how many people here are willing to abandon the special interests and social programs that are causing us to spiral down this hole? Are the more liberal among us ready to tell that single-parent ghetto ho that it's time to get off her back and go to work? Are the "conservative" among us ready to abandon that 20 billion dollar a year waste called the War on Drugs......you know, the one that allows you to FEEL like you are doing something by imprisoning people in an attempt to protect them from themselves? Socialized healthcare? It all goes back to that freedom to fail thing. That protective security net we all seem to want takes a big government just to oversee the money we dump into it, not to mention the amount of government agencies it takes to oversee the mechanicals of those programs. Think about all the money wasting programs that WE allow these idiots to pass. They don't help. Everytime we pass another law that requires(by force) a person to cut their successes in order to crutch someone else's failures it chips away at that great vision our forefathers had for us. We can all claim to embrace freedom and the values that this country was founded on, but according to the results of MANY past elections.....we don't.

True freedom is scary to the weak. The concept that we are free to do as we please as long as we don't infringe on the rights of others is long gone. The political game today revolves around getting as many of your teams programs passed as you can, while blocking as many of the other teams programs as possible. America itself is forgotten, the only choice on the minds of most people is simply: Bush or Kerry? We have gotten caught up in the game and somehow forgotten the reason we were playing it to begin with.
 

TwistedCopper said:
I very well may cast a protest vote to someone else. I know it is a vote wasted but I'm just so damned sick of politicians having a platform leveled by their parties.

Dont discount the "protest vote" as you call it. The beauty of our voting situation is that we have more than 2 parties running. Realistically it will either be the Dem or Rep who wins but you have to remember they are still running against each other. If the polls show a strong support for a 3rd party candidate either the Dem or Rep candidate will pick up that 3rd party's platform to try to win that persons votes. Even though that 3rd party candidate did not get elected their ideas did.

This govt and country arent perfect but I wouldnt want to be anywhere else. I urge everyone who has a problem with the way things are run to get out and do something about it. There are local govts you can start with. But above all vote for the candidate you want Dem, Rep, or other. The only vote that is wasted is the one that is not cast.
 
i do believe junkpile made an incredible point with this...
True freedom is scary to the weak. The concept that we are free to do as we please as long as we don't infringe on the rights of others is long gone. The political game today revolves around getting as many of your teams programs passed as you can, while blocking as many of the other teams programs as possible. America itself is forgotten, the only choice on the minds of most people is simply: Bush or Kerry? We have gotten caught up in the game and somehow forgotten the reason we were playing it to begin with.
and hes right, most of america is weak and therefore scared of anything that is liberal or free, i mean all the regulations and all the restrictions put forth in todays time are just mind boggling when you think about them, how about all the stupid warning labels that are on products? i mean for the most part youd have to be either mentally disabled or psychologicly unstable to do some of the things they warn you not to, but because america has become so concerned about making sure were all "safe and free" most people feel things like this are necessary, the days of vigilante freedom should see a return, where people know what freedom is and how to protect it, the war on drugs and the war on terroism are making a mockery of what our fore fathers believed was worth fighting for, we are not making the world safe for democracy anymore, we are becoming an imperialistic monster bent on spreading the sacred values of democracy to the lesser people of the world, its relative to when england had their crusades, going out and slaughtering people and telling them what was right in the name of christ did nothing but bad things for them and that is the same direction that we are headed
 

When I first saw the headline I thought it was about pickup lines too. I got some good ones. If we are interested in taking over this thread I can start.... Guy: Hey do you work for UPS? Girl: No why? Guy: Because you have been staring at my package all night.
 
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