My Cherokee's Unusual Modifications...

[XJNick]

Thank You all for the kind words. I'm going to answer all of your questions across several posts, as it is hard to quote everyone in a single post. :mrgreen:

How much power does it have? Faster? Slower? More or less torque?

If all you want is numbers, here they are. The 9.1" Advanced DC motor I'm using can produce a bit above 100 HP max., and around a max. of 500 ft-lbs. of torque at the motor shaft. Do I get this much HP or Torque in my setup? Probably not, once again due to my controller's limitation of 600 motor amps. The amount of current (amps) which can be thrown into the motor directly relates to the amount of Torque it can produce.

With that said, the best thing about an Electric motor is that they have more low end torque and can produce their FULL amount of torque almost instantly (assuming you can throw enough power into the motor)! Also they don't need to "warm up" and they don't idle like an ICE does.

do you know if the higher end electric motors make more power than a big bolock? reason i ask is that i was watching a show where an electric car accelatrated form 0-60 in like 2 seconds...seems pretty darn fast to me :lol:

I have no idea. I just posted the max. ratings for my 9.1" motor. There is a 10" DC motor made by Kostov and many AC motors made by Siemens which are commonly used in EVs as well. I believe some of these are more powerful than my ADC motor. However, it is very common to use multiple motors when you need more HP/Torque.

Maybe the show you're thinking of is "Sucking Amps" on Discovery (or was it TLC?), which featured the "Gone Postal" project where some of the big names in the EV community got together and built a racing EV out of an old postal truck. They've blown out their drives and transmissions several times now because the setup that Gone Postal uses produces a truly sick amount of torque.

So as far as power is concerned, it all depends on the type/brand of components you use. There are many EVs which have been built and are used for racing. You might check out the National Electric Drag Racing Association (NEDRA) for more info about truly fast EVs.

-Nick :!:

 

[TwistedCU]

I don't know, I drive around 55 miles per day and I would love to have something like that. with all the money I'd save on gas, oil, etc. Maybe it would be less versitile, but it would make one heck of a commuter - and in any weather 'cause it's a Jeep :wink:

Our power is generated from the Conowingo Dam Hydro-Electric Plant. Electricity is generated by turbines powerd by moving water. Nuclear plants would also be an exception there. Even if your power was generated at a coal burning plant, I think the impact on the environment would be substantially lower than a gas engine.

 

[XJNick]

RE: Newest, Youngest Jeeper, Its a Girl!!

Hi Gadget,

Second, a question: I assume by “deep cycle flooded lead-acid batteries,” you are referring to the common automotive or marine-style battery with which we are all familiar.

No. They really are neither automotive nor marine grade, they are true flooded deep cycle batteries (which are usually called golf-cart batteries as that is their primary application). A typical automotive battery cannot handle the depth of discharge nor provide as many life cycles as "golf-cart" batteries can. "Marine" grade batteries, on the other hand, can withstand deep discharging, but aren't made quite as well, and usually cannot provide as many life cycles as golf cart batteries can.

FYI, the most commonly used batteries in EVs today are 6-volt and 8-volt flooded lead acid batteries from Trojan or U.S. Batteries or 12-volt sealed (AGM) lead acid deep-cycle batteries, such as Exide Orbitals or Optima yellow tops.

If that assumption is correct, how are you dealing with the explosive hydrogen gas that would be liberated by a battery bank during the re-charging process?

The flooded lead acid batteries do "gas" some during recharging. This occurs mainly near the end of the charge cycle, when the battery pack is near its "acceptance" voltage. The amount of gas they emit greatly depends on how much current to charger is dumping into the pack. In my case, my charger has a max output current of around 40 amps, and I've found that the batteries don't gas very much at all. At the moment, the rear battery boxes are not vented to the outside, so I have to leave all the windows open in the Jeep while it is recharging. This is temporary, as venting those boxes is on my to-do list, and at that point those boxes will be completely sealed off from the passenger compartment. But once again, the gassing hasn't been bad at all, though I do realize it is a potential hazard.

For those who aren't aware, this "gassing" occurs only with flooded batteries. Optima yellow tops and other sealed batteries do not "gas".

-Nick :!:

 

[XJNick]

RE: Re: RE: Spare on the roof made for some excessive roll

Hi,

What did this conversion cost you?

I don't know the exact amount at this point as I really am scared to add up the receipts Originally, it was going to cost around $7,000 to convert. In all honesty, I think I'm a bit over $9,500. But here's the thing to keep in mind: These are all new parts. With the exception of the battery pack, the other main components (motor, controller, charger, etc...) will last a long time. I know a guy with an EV which was built in 1963 and is still running strong on the original electric motor, controller, charger, etc..

These parts are dependable and the system is very simple compared to that of an Internal Comustion Engine (ICE) powered vehicle, so there is less which can go wrong. Just for comparison, I can fit the electrical schematic for the ENTIRE EV electrical system (not counting existing 12-volt wiring such as lighting) on a single sheet of paper. How many pages of schematics are in the FSM for a gas powered Jeep? Many.

What is the cost of a recharge and how far can you go on one charge?

I don't know the exact cost of a recharge. The power company has agreed to give me a 240-volt Kilowatt-hour meter for the Jeep. Once I get that from them (which will be soon), I can tell you exactly how much it costs to recharge. I can tell you this: with electricity being only $0.06 per KWh here in south Texas, it is cheaper than gas. :mrgreen:

As for range (aka the distance I can go per charge) , I get about 40 miles max. per charge with the flooded batteries I currently have. These batteries are the least expensive and most durable type to use in an EV, but also provide marginal range (mainly because of their weight).

However, more and more EV owners are now switching over to Nickel Metal Hydride (NiMH), Memory-less Nickel Cadmium (NiCad), or Lithium Ion (Li-ion) batteries. These advanced chemistries are able to provide much better range in EVs. Ranges of 60-100 miles per charge are achieveable with NiCad and NiMH, and ranges as high as 200-300 miles per charge have been achieved in some vehicles using Li-ion batteries. So there ARE EVs on the road TODAY which DO achieve very decent mileage per charge. The only reason why I'm not using one of these battery chemistries is because they cost more than flooded lead acid batteries, and I don't need that kind of range.

-Nick :!:

 

[XJNick]

Hi,

how long is the extension cord?

Well, since you asked, the one I carry in the Jeep at all times is about 100' long. I then have adapters so I can plug the Jeep into a wide variety of outlets. These include 120-volt (standard) 15/20amp outlets, 240-volt 30amp or 50amp dryer/range style outlets, 120-volt 30amp twistlock outlets, and 240-volt 30amp twistlock outlets. :shock:

How much did it all cost, after you recouped the sale of the engine (snip) You mentioned that it has the power of a 4-banger, is there any way to bring that up

Although I already answered this in my previous post, I forgot to mention that that total cost was not counting the sale of the engine. As a matter of fact, I still have the 6-cylinder 242 and all wiring/sensors/ECU for it sitting quietly in my garage waiting for a new home. I really do need to sell. (as click and clack would say, "shameless commerce division")

To answer you second question, Yes. Yes you can build an EV with way more HP and Torque than mine has. Look at my previous posts for more about this, but also check out NEDRA and the EV drag racers.

chances are, the electricity used to charge it is generated by fossil fuels, so you are generating harmful emissions - just not while driving.

Hold it. That's not always true. Yes, there are EVs that are charged using power sources which pollute, such as mine (for now ). But let's not forget solar power from photovoltaic solar panels. There are many EV owners who charge their EVs only from clean energy from solar panels which they have on their houses or in their backyards. I hope to be able to charge using only solar power sometime in the near future as well. Also, I did want to point out that it is far easier to control the emissions of a single polluting power plant than it is to control the emissions from, say, 1 million tail pipes. I'm running out of time to type now, or I'd continue this discussion.

how long to charge?

Around 2 hours from a 240-volt, 30A outlet or
Around 5 hours from a 120-volt, 15A (standard) outlet.

My charger is rated 30A output. There is currently a 50A charger which can charge most EVs in about 1 hour from a 240-volt, 50A outlet.

-Nick :!:

 

[geopig]

Our power is generated from the Conowingo Dam Hydro-Electric Plant. Electricity is generated by turbines powerd by moving water. Nuclear plants would also be an exception there. Even if your power was generated at a coal burning plant, I think the impact on the environment would be substantially lower than a gas engine.

Agreed, if you live in Northern or North-eastern USA (or Canada) there is alot of electricity generated by hydro-electric plants (alot comes from the many hydro-electric plants in Canada, particularly the province of Quebec) along with the nukes. Furthermore, even the coal burning plants these days are relatively "clean" compared to the "old" days. Restrictions on emissions from coal plants are strict and most plants use "clean coal" which has low sulfur content. "Dirty coal" however is still used in many third world and developing countries (e.g. some Asian countries, Africa, Russia). And if you live in CA, some (minor amounts) electricity is generated by solar and wind power.

 

[TwistedCU]

RE: Mingez went wheeling today. ***Warning!!! LOTS of pics

I see alot of Windmills when travelling to see family in Pittsburgh. My brother in law tells me that in some cases, enough power is generated from some of the private ones (at times) that people actually get a credit on their electric bill.

Nick, If you don't mind another question - How long can you expect those batteries to last before replacing them, and what do they cost?

 

[mud4feet]

RE: Re: Another cooling question.

XJNick, I am truly impressed. From previous threads I had ascertained that you were the "electric guru" but I had no idea to what extent (and I had wondered where you had been). I am envious, curious, impressed (I think I already mentioned that), and love the idea of any vehicle less harmful to the environment (the emissions from both cars and power plants are destroying the Appalachian Mountains). I had all sorts of questions, but most have already been asked and answered. I just wonder how she does off-road, but I figure you haven't had a chance to try it yet, and when you do, you'll be sure to let your fellow "Z'ers" know. Keep up the good work and may the word spread - Mother Nature loves you!!!!

mud

 

[Inspector-Gadget]

RE: Re: RE: Mingez went wheeling today. ***Warning!!! LOTS

Hi-Ya, Nick,

Thank you for answering my questions.

As I had guessed, you were aware of the hydrogen gas problem and how to deal with it.

A great project and a great web site too. You should be very proud.

OK...It is settled. When I put together the Jeepz.com Robot Wars team, you are hereby selected as Chief Engineer. If you can do all that to a Cherokee, just think of the killer, monster combat-robot you might build.

Nick, on a more serious note, I would be interested to read your plans for college?

Regards,

Gadget

 

[mingez]

Re: RE: Re: RE: Mingez went wheeling today. ***Warning!!!

After some New Mexican food with some green chile, I sometimes have a hydrogen gas problem. Will I need to install some ventilation for that too? :lol:

 

[mud4feet]

After some New Mexican food with some green chile, I sometimes have a hydrogen gas problem. Will I need to install some ventilation for that too?

:lol: :lol: :lol: - Just make sure it blows WEST!!!!!!!!

 

[Saurian]

Thank you for humouring my questions, lately, I have been posting and totally forgetting about the presence of a second, or even a third page... You did mention that range is low, and that there are different battery setups that could be implemented to increase to up to 300 miles... This, naturally makes such a setup infeasable for some, I am thinking in the terms of the fact that it is about 250 miles to the places I go up north, a couple of which have no electricity for many miles... An electric conversion is something that I have thought of doing in the future, hoping to have Jeep for many a year. It's nice to know that it can actually be done... Electricity is cheap down there. You're paying 3 cents/kilowatthour, right? Here in Michigan, Detroit Edison (subcompany of the DTE Energy Family) (have to put that in, dad works for 'em), charges us 8.286 cents for the first 17 kWh, and 9.696 cents for each thereafter. Still cheaper than gas, by a long shot...

 

[judge09]

Awsome conversion. Congrats on a job well done. I can certainly see all the hardwork and thought that went into your project. I really enjoyed the your website on it. Congrats.

 

[jps4jeep]

Jeep K&N Filter drop in style

I was going to post about how I put a new battery in my wifes trunk, but never mind...


That is amazing Nick, was this in anypart done for school?

 

[XJNick]

HVAC PROBLEM

that in some cases, enough power is generated from some of the private ones (at times) that people actually get a credit on their electric bill.

The same is true for solar power. Many times, even if your solar panel array isn't powerful enough to power your whole house, it can spin your meter backwards during the day when you are not at home (and thus are using very little power). So you figure that not only are you reducing your grid-aquired electricity consumption (and your bills) overall, but you are putting most of the power you generate from the solar panels straight into the grid during the daytime. Most power companies do pay you for any electricity you put back into the grid.

How long can you expect those batteries to last before replacing them, and what do they cost?

Flooded Lead acid batteries typically last around 3 to 4 years, depending on how they are treated. My pack cost a bit over $1000. If I figure that my pack will last 4 years, you could say that the pack costs me about $250 per year of usage. $250 per year being the ONLY real "maintanence" cost. As a side note, I've spent a LOT more money than that keeping my gas Wrangler running in the past year that I've owned it... and I do my own repair work (so labor is free). For comparision, NiMH, NiCad and Li-Ion batteries cost more, but have lifespans of 10 years or greater.

I just wonder how she does off-road, but I figure you haven't had a chance to try it yet

You're right. I haven't had it off road since the conversion. It could be tricky off-road as flooded batteries do not like weird angles or a ton of bouncing around (makes the electrolyte swish around). Had I used sealed batteries, there would be no reason why it wouldn't do great off road. Since the electric motor doesn't idle, there is no need to use the clutch when comming to a stop or starting (only when shifting). So I'd have all the benefits of the manual transmission, but without any clutch feathering involved. Just step on the accelerator and the full motor torque is avaliable INSTANTLY.

OK...It is settled. When I put together the Jeepz.com Robot Wars team, you are hereby selected as Chief Engineer

Yes!! We could build a small powerful electric battlebot Jeep with a (insert weapon of mass robot destruction here)! ( Think PowerWheels Jeep on steriods.) :mrgreen:

-Nick :!:

 

[XJNick]

RE: Re: Another cooling question.

Hi,

That is amazing Nick, was this in anypart done for school?

No, not at all related to school.

Nick, on a more serious note, I would be interested to read your plans for college?

The shortend version is this: I want to major in engineering (most likely Electrical Engineering, but study other areas of engineering as well), and also take some classes in Architecture. My first choice college is Washington University in St. Louis.

After some New Mexican food with some green chile, I sometimes have a hydrogen gas problem. Will I need to install some ventilation for that too? Laughing

LOL! I figured someone would make a joke around the "gassing" issue :lol:

-Nick :!:

 

[graewulf]

another question - do you ise the engine to recharge the batteries when coasting/braking? this would increase the charge time a bit.

 

[XJNick]

RE: Re: RE: tj jerking around

do you ise the engine to recharge the batteries when coasting/braking? this would increase the charge time a bit.

That is called Regenerative braking, and no I don't use it. Regen. braking is an excellent way of increasing EV range some, as the motor basically becomes a large generator whenever you have your foot OFF of the accelerator.

The only reason why I don't use it is because of my DC power system. In order to use Regen. braking, you have to have a motor speed controller which supports it. Most DC controllers do NOT support it, mainly because Regen. with a DC system is trickier to do without melting electronics. However, most EVs which use an AC drive system have Regen. braking, as it is easier/safer on those systems, and so most all of the AC controllers support it.

As a side note, there are some Hybrids running DC systems with Regenerative braking. They are able to do it safely because the controller and motor were designed/built/optimized as a matching set (unlike DC EV motor controllers which are universal and are designed to work with many different brands/models of motors).

-Nick :!:

 

[Sully]

I probably missed it but what is the top speed on it?

 

[XJNick]

RE: Trouble codes

Hi,

It gets up to 65 MPH just fine. I haven't really tried pushing it past that yet. (No need to)

-Nick :!: