I demand that you let me break the law!!

bchcky said:
US border patrol agents are highly trained. they go through a 20 week academy that is one of the most respected among law enforcement agencies throughout the united states. i recently started the process to become a border patrol agent. first thing is a test, you must pass in order to be given an unofficial offer.

next would be the unofficial offer (this is where my process stopped, i declined the unofficial offer to pursue other jobs, but i can always go back and take the test again). it is unofficial pending drug screening, a thorough background investigation, a physical fitness test, and a panel interview with three ranking border patrol agents.

in the 20 week academy, agents are taught spanish, citizenship and immigration laws, and general law enforcement aspects of the job (arrests, firearms, hand to hand combat, emergency response etc)
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Well, that's wonderful. I wish they would go into all that to train the men and women who are supposed to serve and protect our cities. Instead we get affirmitive action quotas and waived drug screening requirements. See results of which here:
http://www.examiner.com/a-109257~Ch...int_against_police_after_arrest__robbery.html
 

I don't see hwy some are so quick to assume that US citizens would be incapable of organizing an effective militia. Why would they all be stupid rednecks (Jed's) just because they own weapons and want to protect their communities and country from further decay and lawlessness. Isn't that kind of thing what got this country through it's first hundred and fifty years?

Yeah I am white and in PA but there are plenty of illegals to go around no matter where you go these days.

I think your fear of having some stupid moron taking pot shots at you in the desert are exaggerated and rather stereotypical if not prejudiced.
 
TC, i dont agree with affirmative action. never said i have. there are certain jobs especially that put people's lives at risk by not just taking the best candidates available, regardless of sex, color or anything else. while the CNN story you posted is a negative reflection of law enforcement, it is by no means a statistical representation of poor conduct. does it go on? sure. but you must realize that that is a pretty severe situation too.
 
TwistedCopper said:
I think your fear of having some stupid moron taking pot shots at you in the desert are exaggerated and rather stereotypical if not prejudiced.
Click to expand...

Well perhaps. My experience, having lived in Texas and Southern NM is that it's NOT that exaggerated. I have been shot at in the ghetto, and have been jumped by rednecks. In the Jemez mtns, just north of Abq, a band of cowboy hat wearin' idiots were having fun at our expense by shooting inanimate objects near our camp to get a rise out of us. It did, and we called the park rangers, and reported the incident, of course by the time we got the authorities there, they were long gone.

My mentioning your color (white) wasn't to incite any sort defense, but to drive home the point that you can't possibly know what it's like to be a brown-skinned kid in the chihuahuan desert. (just as I can't possibly know what it's like to be a white kid on the East Coast.)

Again, all I'm asking is that the volunteers are screened.

As for the minutemen, I appreciate the effort, but I don't trust the average human to be responsible with weaponry, why should I trust the minutemen to properly screen their people. I agree with what they are trying to do. But...humans always fail to prove their trustworthiness to me... so there we are.
 

90Xjay said:
I'm saying that the county needs something right now, really bad, and who is going to stand up and say enough is enough?
Click to expand...
The emotional side of me almost wants to say we are at that point. To a great extent, as far as myself is concerned, you and TC are preaching to the choir on this subject. I am just as fed up as the two of you.

I've just seen too many irresponsible gun owners to believe that they are "schooled" enough for responsible use of firearms. "First hand" unfortunately.
 
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First off I stay out of these discussions and refrain from starting them...the past few attempts have seen some nasty in-fighting.( don't want to make someone else leave because I love lively discussions)

But to my amazement some one else started this and so far (65 posts) it has been a meaningful discussion. All thoughts, everyone has brought up, so far, has had its merits. But I think we are sliding off the main subject here (fixing the flow of illegal immigrants).

(slides out his soap box)

(No Sparky you cant go to the bathroom, you have to stay and listen to my drivel...you too TC I see you trying to slip out the back:purple: )

First off The U.S. government has no clear idea how many people in this country are here illegally. Best guess scenario is all they can come up with.
To control the in-flow of illegal aliens, the US govererment wants to build a fence across the U.S.- Mex border.

Humm doesn't it sound like the USSR's response to keep people inside its new country back in the 50's? What are we going to build, a brick fence and have armed gun turrets every 100 feet? Check point Chico?

Well the latest is a three tier fence with razor wire.
( I guess I wont be able to spray paint this one).
And where will we place the gun turrets?
We as Americans will spent millions of dollars to effectively close off one border.

Whats next? A razor wirer fence along the Canadian border as well? You know those crafty Canadians are out to steal the Stanly cup as well as your precious jobs.:purple:

I don't think either idea will work, one its too cost prohibitive ,that we as a nation will not stand for the cost of building it (cheap bast***s), nor maintaining it( yes we are really cheap bast***s).

Maybe a national ID card system would be a better idea.
Utah just passed a law saying if you cant prove your a US citizen you don't get a Utah drivers License. Just an I.D. card....try opening a simple checking account without a valid drivers license, buy a house, shoot cash a check!
Shoot peps we already carry a national ID card....our drivers license.
Maybe this is the cheaper route we should gravitate to-wards to?
 
Ute, I agree with your post. I don't think a fence will do it. First of all, as you said, it's too cost prohibitive. Second, a chain link fence, no matter how many tiers, is just silly. Doncha think they have bolt-cutters in Mexico? In order for a chain link fence to be effective, you would have to have guards every 100 yards or so to stop those with the bolt-cutters from getting through. A brick wall is even more cost prohibitive, albeit more effective. The problem with that is the tunnels. Nobody has mentioned the tunnels in all this discussion, either here or the government or the press. There are dozens of tunnels discovered each year that are used for either illegal drug trafficking or for illegal human trafficking. One of the most recent tunnels was several miles long, had concrete floors, walls, and ceiling, lights, ventilation, running water, and small alcoves for resting or sleeping. Authorities believe it had been in operation for close to 20 years! Ok, so if this elaborate tunnel had been there for 20 years without being detected, how many smaller, less elaborate tunnels are out there? So the fence idea will stem some of the flow, but nowhere near all of it.

On the other hand, if Roosevelt were still in office, he'd come up with a way to supply Americans with jobs and income while building the fences, and boost the nation's economy in the process. Downside is that most of those jobs would be filled by illegals with false documentation stating they are legal citizens.....then they'd build secret doorways, tunnels, etc. for their families and friends to use to cross the border illegally also. I don't know the answers, but I still like the bullets over baracades plan.

Now, can I go to the bathroom?
 

plan and f---ing simple give them 90 days to use up the rest of there food stamps n then kick there asses out with our good ol' national guard
 
Sparky-Watts said:
Ute, I agree with your post. I don't think a fence will do it. First of all, as you said, it's too cost prohibitive. Second, a chain link fence, no matter how many tiers, is just silly. Doncha think they have bolt-cutters in Mexico?
Click to expand...
Not to mention, who is going to build it if we don't employ the help of Mexicans? :twisted:
 
don`t anyone remember frontier justice? crap, there`s more of us than them, people depending on the gov. to take care of this aren`t anything but sissies, we can`t really continue to let this build up, ah don`t avocate shooting, but, where in the hell do ya think all the damn drugs are comming from, most of them anyway, an beleive me, them dudes are pretty well armed, you have to do what ya gotta do when ya gotta do it.
 

I'll not carry a national ID card, I'm a citizen by right not by license.
 
rick said:
don`t anyone remember frontier justice? crap, there`s more of us than them, people depending on the gov. to take care of this aren`t anything but sissies, we can`t really continue to let this build up, ah don`t avocate shooting, but, where in the hell do ya think all the damn drugs are comming from, most of them anyway, an beleive me, them dudes are pretty well armed, you have to do what ya gotta do when ya gotta do it.
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:-|
 
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You know... It really grinds my mom's gears, and mine too, that, well, let me put up the basic point, and then the relavant links...

See, someone in prison has better healthcare coverage than her son, me, who works 2 full-time jobs. If I break my leg, or heaven forbid end up in the hospital if my heart decides to act up again, I'll be responsible, and held accountable for the paying of fantastic sums of money...

So what in heaven's name are we to do in the future if all of our social security and medicare funds are being diverted towards healthcare for the uninsured and incarcerated? If social security and medicare do not exist, we turn to our nest egg... But that's gone because everything costs so damn much... Insurance that we must carry should the uninsured slam into our Jeep while we commute to work, lest we be sued... Ok, that's gone, and the Government cannot help, guess we'll have to depend on our pensions... But things cost too damn much for companies with the rising cost of healthcare again, so pensions have been long since bought out... Allrighty then, looks like we're gonna have to work till the day we die... But wait! Our companies are laying off like madness because labour is expensive! Hmm... Looks like not much to depend on in the future at all... Being that we are documented, legal citizens of this country has put us at the worst disadvantage as far as financial security, and security in general is concerned, because of the accountability that falls upon us for everyone else who does not fall under said catagory... It's a bleak future and a deep hole that has been dug, and it grows deeper still with cheap labour carrying shovels...

"The workforce for our crappy jobs will be gone! Nobody will work these jobs!" No, not for $2.00/hour... Damn, looks like you're actually gonna have to PAY for people to do this job! A wage that reflects the rising cost of living, cut into the deep profits a little bit, and not base your finances as far as wage-paying on the cost of living from the 1920s!

"This country would not be here if it was not for immigrants" Well, yes it would, a third of my genetic makeup would be living quite happily here... But even back then, there was documentation, there was assimilation, you became an American living in America... You became part of the country, there was none of this trying to turn small parts of America into you...

"They have rights, just as we do"... Bosh, fie, and pumpripple! The term Illegal Immigrant, and I personally think that using the word 'immigrant' is a *******ization of everything that word stands for, means just that, illegal! Illegal means that you are in the process of breaking one of the laws of this land. If you are flagrantly breaking the law of the land, you have NO call WHATSOEVER to be protected by the rights that have been established under said law of the land.

"What about the illegal immigrants in Europe, and so on..." Sounds like they have an issue to be addressed in Europe. But here we are, in the United States, dealing with an issue in the United States, funny that!

In advance, forgive the lack of prose and eloquence in this rant. I am NOT having a good day, so the usual niceties are lacking. ~SB
 

Saurian said:
"This country would not be here if it was not for immigrants" Well, yes it would, a third of my genetic makeup would be living quite happily here... But even back then, there was documentation, there was assimilation, you became an American living in America... You became part of the country, there was none of this trying to turn small parts of America into you...
Click to expand...

Well, except for that nasty little war of Southern Apprehension..........:twisted:
 
i heard a comedian say lets trick the mexicans to build a wall across the border building from mexico then those *******s couldnt come back
 
I am a third generation Irish American. I was deeply saddened to see the 50,000 plus Irish immigrants these laws are going to impact and force out of this country, however I stand by the unwavering example my family and millions of other families have established in the last century. We did it, and we did it legally. It is a sad thing, and not a law that should be cheered or celebrated in my opinion, but a law that must be enacted none the less. I don't subscribe to the fear mongering that the media is pushing on us talking about potential terrorist threats immerging from our southern border, but there is no denying that illegal immigration has posed a heavy burden on many of our systems and institutions, and if not on a Federal level, on a state and local level one is hard pressed to ignore the evidence. Again, I say we need the reform,... but I don't think the exodus of so many depserate people should be to fireworks and parades.

Just my .02
 

Here is something that hacked me off today.
Lets look at Mexico's immigration law.
They are demanding that we make all of these consessions and just take a second to read their laws on immigration.




by J. Michael Waller Posted May 08, 2006

Mexico has a radical idea for a rational immigration policy that most Americans would love. However, Mexican officials haven’t been sharing that idea with us as they press for our Congress to adopt the McCain-Kennedy immigration reform bill.

That's too bad, because Mexico, which annually deports more illegal aliens than the United States does, has much to teach us about how it handles the immigration issue. Under Mexican law, it is a felony to be an illegal alien in Mexico.

At a time when the Supreme Court and many politicians seek to bring American law in line with foreign legal norms, it’s noteworthy that nobody has argued that the U.S. look at how Mexico deals with immigration and what it might teach us about how best to solve our illegal immigration problem. Mexico has a single, streamlined law that ensures that foreign visitors and immigrants are:

* in the country legally;

* have the means to sustain themselves economically;

* not destined to be burdens on society;

* of economic and social benefit to society;

* of good character and have no criminal records; and

* contributors to the general well-being of the nation.

The law also ensures that:

* immigration authorities have a record of each foreign visitor;

* foreign visitors do not violate their visa status;

* foreign visitors are banned from interfering in the country’s internal politics;

* foreign visitors who enter under false pretenses are imprisoned or deported;

* foreign visitors violating the terms of their entry are imprisoned or deported;

* those who aid in illegal immigration will be sent to prison.

Who could disagree with such a law? It makes perfect sense. The Mexican constitution strictly defines the rights of citizens -- and the denial of many fundamental rights to non-citizens, illegal and illegal. Under the constitution, the Ley General de Población, or General Law on Population, spells out specifically the country's immigration policy.

It is an interesting law -- and one that should cause us all to ask, Why is our great southern neighbor pushing us to water down our own immigration laws and policies, when its own immigration restrictions are the toughest on the continent? If a felony is a crime punishable by more than one year in prison, then Mexican law makes it a felony to be an illegal alien in Mexico.

If the United States adopted such statutes, Mexico no doubt would denounce it as a manifestation of American racism and bigotry.

We looked at the immigration provisions of the Mexican constitution. [1] Now let's look at Mexico's main immigration law.

Mexico welcomes only foreigners who will be useful to Mexican society:

* Foreigners are admitted into Mexico "according to their possibilities of contributing to national progress." (Article 32)

* Immigration officials must "ensure" that "immigrants will be useful elements for the country and that they have the necessary funds for their sustenance" and for their dependents. (Article 34)

* Foreigners may be barred from the country if their presence upsets "the equilibrium of the national demographics," when foreigners are deemed detrimental to "economic or national interests," when they do not behave like good citizens in their own country, when they have broken Mexican laws, and when "they are not found to be physically or mentally healthy." (Article 37)

* The Secretary of Governance may "suspend or prohibit the admission of foreigners when he determines it to be in the national interest." Article 38

Mexican authorities must keep track of every single person in the country:

* Federal, local and municipal police must cooperate with federal immigration authorities upon request, i.e., to assist in the arrests of illegal immigrants. (Article 73)

* A National Population Registry keeps track of "every single individual who comprises the population of the country," and verifies each individual's identity. (Articles 85 and 86)

* A national Catalog of Foreigners tracks foreign tourists and immigrants (Article 87), and assigns each individual with a unique tracking number (Article 91).

Foreigners with fake papers, or who enter the country under false pretenses, may be imprisoned:

* Foreigners with fake immigration papers may be fined or imprisoned. (Article 116)

* Foreigners who sign government documents "with a signature that is false or different from that which he normally uses" are subject to fine and imprisonment. (Article 116)

Foreigners who fail to obey the rules will be fined, deported, and/or imprisoned as felons:

* Foreigners who fail to obey a deportation order are to be punished. (Article 117)

* Foreigners who are deported from Mexico and attempt to re-enter the country without authorization can be imprisoned for up to 10 years. Article 118

* Foreigners who violate the terms of their visa may be sentenced to up to six years in prison (Articles 119, 120 and 121). Foreigners who misrepresent the terms of their visa while in Mexico -- such as working with out a permit -- can also be imprisoned.

Under Mexican law, illegal immigration is a felony. The General Law on Population says,

* "A penalty of up to two years in prison and a fine of three hundred to five thousand pesos will be imposed on the foreigner who enters the country illegally." (Article 123)

* Foreigners with legal immigration problems may be deported from Mexico instead of being imprisoned. (Article 125)

* Foreigners who "attempt against national sovereignty or security" will be deported. (Article 126)

Mexicans who help illegal aliens enter the country are themselves considered criminals under the law:

* A Mexican who marries a foreigner with the sole objective of helping the foreigner live in the country is subject to up to five years in prison. (Article 127)

* Shipping and airline companies that bring undocumented foreigners into Mexico will be fined. (Article 132)

All of the above runs contrary to what Mexican leaders are demanding of the United States. The stark contrast between Mexico's immigration practices versus its American immigration preachings is telling. It gives a clear picture of the Mexican government's agenda: to have a one-way immigration relationship with the United States.

Let's call Mexico's bluff on its unwarranted interference in U.S. immigration policy. Let's propose, just to make a point, that the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) member nations standardize their immigration laws by using Mexico's own law as a model.

This article was first posted at CenterforSecurityPolicy.org.
 
90,

Very enlightening post.

Interesting that Mexico deports more than us, and is stricter than us.

I agree, call the bluff.

Where did you get the info?
 
Mingez,

It turns out that Rush Limbaugh was on his show the other day reading parts of this law, but he did not say(on purpose) what country he was refereing to.
The media picked up on the rules and ran with the story saying that Limbaugh was recommeding these terrible and strict immigration laws, not knowing that he was simply reading Mexico's law!:purple: :purple: :purple:

He made fool of them:redface:

Anyway I just googled the keyword and evidently the man that I referenced at the top of my post had written the article that got this started.

90
 

Had to bump this thread back up again.

My neighbors just bought a documentary on the immigration issue called
"Cochise County USA- Cries from the Border" it really upset them when they saw what is going on in that Arizona county. Have any of you seen or heard of it?
 
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