All gears studder


One other thing I forgot to mention. When they had it in the garage and scanning it, you can hear a miss in the motor "ticking". By ticking I mean the sound the 4 cyclinder makes.
 
UPDATE: got the replacement O2 today (another NTK). Just got done putting in the replacement and took it for a test drive. No spuddering or hesitation. I just got back and parked it. Gonna let it cool back down and take it for another test run. This occurred the first time I replaced the O2 sensor. This time I'm going to test it a second time after cool down
 
Just took it for a second run. Jeep ran fine without a hesitation again. I'll watch it again over the course of next week when I drive it a full week to/from work (~46 miles each day) and I'll report a final status
 

Bond--007 said:
UPDATE: got the replacement O2 today (another NTK). Just got done putting in the replacement and took it for a test drive. No spuddering or hesitation. I just got back and parked it. Gonna let it cool back down and take it for another test run. This occurred the first time I replaced the O2 sensor. This time I'm going to test it a second time after cool down
Click to expand...

Great to hear it is fixed. That maybe the first time I've heard of a new NTK going bad this quickly.

Good luck going forward.
 
JPNinPA said:
Great to hear it is fixed. That maybe the first time I've heard of a new NTK going bad this quickly.

Good luck going forward.
Click to expand...

I spoke too soon. Fired it up this morning and tried to drive it to work. ITS BACK...... :( I think I'll go with your suggestion regarding the TPS and buy one from AutoZone for $50 (instead of the $8 on Ebay) and see if this whole was caused by a cheap sensor
 
Bond--007 said:
I spoke too soon. Fired it up this morning and tried to drive it to work. ITS BACK...... :( I think I'll go with your suggestion regarding the TPS and buy one from AutoZone for $50 (instead of the $8 on Ebay) and see if this whole was caused by a cheap sensor
Click to expand...

Nooooo not AZ. From the dealer!!! Aftermarket commonly fail out of the box.

Verify the O2 isn't bad and there is some other issue killing your O2 like an over voltage to the heater.
 
Last edited:

I just called the local Chrysler dealer. They want $109.00 :shock: He said they don't have it in stock and would take 2 days to get in. He did ask for the VIN and ran it through their system. He said there are 2 outstanding recalls - (1) #755 FUEL TANK SENDING UNIT & (2) #E22 REPROGRAM PCM AND INSPECT CATALYTIC CONVERTER. Wonder if any of these could contribute to the issue? Thoughts?
 
After thinking about it, the issue tends to lean me towards a faulty PCM. Only because after changing out the O2 sensor last night and running it twice from cold start with no issues, the issue then returned this morning. As if the sensor data was working fine last night but then was messed up this morning like the PCM took a dump once hooked back up to the battery for a period of time
 

Thermo hasn't been fixed yet. I'll call the garage to see what they would charge for the labor.
 
UPDATE: finally fixed!!!!!! After further web crawling, I noticed only 2 sensors were common with the issues I was experiencing: the upstream O2 and the TPS. I automatically ruled out the O2 since this is the second NTK and I couldn't believe or convince myself it was bad again. I started to look into the TPS. I stopped by to talk with the Chrysler mechs at the dealer. The mech I spoke to glanced under the hood to see if anything stuck out. During our convo, he said the TPS didn't look like his '99 he replaced a couple months ago (looked smaller). I explained it was a cross ref part number from Ebay. He had a used one in his tool box and when we compared it, the Ebay one was smaller. He sold me the used one for $20. I installed it tonight and the jeep ran PERFECTLY!!!!!!! No more online "deals" going forward for the jeep. I'll just bite the bullet and buy OEM from the dealer. Chalk this up as a lesson learned (the hard way).

i would like to thank everyone for their help and I hope this thread will save someone time in the future
 

This is great news . I would just like to say although I never bowed out but admit I did leave it up to the confidence and expertise of JPNinPA since his knowledge certainly surpasses mine especially in later model diagnostics. To some degree , there isn't too much change but sometimes just enough to matter. Most noteably from obd1 to obd2. What seems to learned mostly is not just the difference in OEM dealer versus aftermarket and brand X but also the level of diagnostics and thorough check of parts and sensors if operating in correct range or not. I personally believe when there is a driveability issue that first DTC 's should be checked since they raise a flag but when in possession of a good scan tool , the check list of possible faults that may involve other parts and sensors not be ruled out but be checked if in range as well. Sometimes we need to get back to basics such as clean all grounds which do produce results but we need to not overlook the core too. Something as simple as a faulty thermostat causing unstable engine temperature reals havoc with the pcm and causes it to compensate making us believe it's the fuel system too rich for example or faulty coolant emp sensor , etc. . It has us chasing our tail but if we run down a check,list and rule out things knowing what's good and what isn't , we ecentually find the fault. Most engine sensors can be checked without a scan tool but more work. Of we start with things like engine compression , vacuum leaks and work our way from basic engine health and then to fuel system , ignition and engine management and so forth we will narrow down by process of elimination. It's long and drawn out but better than time lost and money spent throwing parts at it and hoping it will fix itself. Im most certain our confidence leads us in the right direction when we find faults such as these . The Internet and parts stores are full of parts that promise but don't deliver all in the name of a quick buck made and lead us to believe we are saving money. Bad parts always do one thing ; complicate issues and make our vehicles unreliable. Thorough diagnostics and goods parts are the way to go.
 
Greg,
It justs seems so funny from the first thread you posted on when I was changing out the O2 sensor and chasing the gremlin, your sig quote just kept echoing as it is so true (an usually easy)
 
Yes , I've personally learned this more times than I may remember but I am learning to remember to NOT overlook the obvious . An example ; a friend tuned up his car and following this the engine had a bad driveability problem. I don't remember what DTC we got but I we repeatedly attempted,to clear them as we were dismissing them since the car was jus tuned up and the faults were probably ignition related and lean / rich errors etc. . Well we didn't have a scan tool and I didn't get to his car in time to start diagnostics which I would have read the spark plugs since they tell how an engine runs. He had a friend at a service station perform a scan and found a faulty spark plug . Cracked insulator. Obviously poor install . Well , he and I learned something that day , check your work , work,carefully and never assume just because you changed a part that it's good. Check the part in question for performance if a problem arises and it would be good to check it regardless . Ecm's and PCM's have their way of exacting vengeance on their owners of not treated right or shoddy work was performed and the vehicles on diagnostics picks it up. Yes , let us be forewarned . Thank you for your post brother and best of luck to your jeep and hope you will enjoy it for many miles to come ! Greg
 

I gave it a few days before responding. I hope that issue is behind you. It boiled down to a bad O2 and temp sensor, introducing a bad TPS and AZ not knowing how to test a battery.
You have probably learned a lot about your jeep from this issue.
You also web crawled doing research and asked others on different forums. Suggestion on researching forums. Read many posts (20-50) and look for a trend in fixes. Common failures are well covered and you'll see trends in fixes. The same with knowledgable members you will see trends.

Biggest thing is describing the issue effectively especially when it changes. Realize I'm blind, deaf, have no sense of touch or smell when it comes to your or anyone's issues. I could only read or view your post as it is presented.

Lastly:
Cheap and easy first and learn how to test some of these components.





image-missing.png


http://youtu.be/zNCrMEOqHpc
 
JPNinPA said:
I gave it a few days before responding. I hope that issue is behind you. It boiled down to a bad O2 and temp sensor, introducing a bad TPS and AZ not knowing how to test a battery.
You have probably learned a lot about your jeep from this issue.
You also web crawled doing research and asked others on different forums. Suggestion on researching forums. Read many posts (20-50) and look for a trend in fixes. Common failures are well covered and you'll see trends in fixes. The same with knowledgable members you will see trends.

Biggest thing is describing the issue effectively especially when it changes. Realize I'm blind, deaf, have no sense of touch or smell when it comes to your or anyone's issues. I could only read or view your post as it is presented.

Lastly:
Cheap and easy first and learn how to test some of these components.
Click to expand...

JPN, thank you so much for the help on this. I have run the jeep everyday and it runs perfect now. Next on the TO DO list is going to be cosmetic repairs..... THANK YOU!!!!
 
Haynes and chilling have many mistakes. They are not worth the paper they are printed on. If I could find it ill link a post that describes some of the errors. I wouldn't use it in my opinion. However the FSM... You will be amazed at the wealth of information.
 
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