'87 vs '97

[DMENTAL]

Hey Guys,
Got a question for you.
There are two dealerships across from one another. Both have a Wrangler for sale at the same price (about $6k)

One is a stock '97SE i4 manual with 144,000 miles, soft top,
The other is an '87 i6 manual with 174,000 miles, hard top, winch, looks like a lift kit and 32 or 33 inch tires, custom bumper...

Both look to be in great shape. I have not visited them yet, so that could be a deciding factor, but, all else being equal, which would be a better bet for a first time Jeeper?
I don't have a shop, but am rather mechanically inclined and have some basic tools.
I would like to not have to do too much to the Jeep, except for upgrades. Of course some regular maintenance is to be expected.

Suggestions and/or questions to ask when I visit them?

Thanks
DMental

 

[Bounty__Hunter]

Both sound like they're worth closer to $5k.

I think the '97 would be a better fit for a first time jeeper, it will be less problematic with the fuel injection as the '87 6cyl is known for driveability issues with the stock carb. The '87 likely has the stock 3.07 axle gears which will cause it to be a dog onroad with the larger tires.

Believe it or not the '97 2.5L has more horsepower than the '87 4.2L engine, but the 6cyl has more torque.

 

[TLCJ5]

Bounty Hunter has some good points,but if you plan on doing your own work the "87 is a little more simple as far as having no fuel injection & less electronics. You also may be able to talk the dealer down more on the "87 because it's older & may be harder for them to sell.
On the other hand the "97 sounds like it's less modified & therefore could be a better starting point.
Either way any Jeep is a good Jeep!

 

[DMENTAL]

Oh yeah! I forgot about carb vs FI.
Also, there is the leaf vs coil
I'm thinking I would be leaning towards the '97 as it seems less messed with and would be a good base.

I'm hoping they would go for an offer of 5k with TTL but that might be hoping too much from a dealership.

Of course I could start with an offer closer to 4 since the kbb trade-in on the '97 is $3250 ;-)

 

[Saddle Tramp]

To start with $6K for an 87 YJ is way too much to pay. If it hasn’t already been done the carb would need to be changed out to a Motorcraft 2100 (stay away from the Weber as they can be problems if you don’t get a good one out of the box) and the emission system Nuttered. The jeep will never run properly for long if you don’t. If you have emissions testing in your area a Nutter Bypass may cause you troubles particularly if a visual inspection is required.

The only problem with the 97 is the 4 cylinder. I’m not trying to put the I4 down as it is a great long lasting motor but you need to be prepared to accept the lower power. The I4 won’t be able to turn large tires as well and in fact even though the I4 Wrangler comes with 4:10 gears in the pumpkins with larger tires it is common to not be able to hold 5th gear without reducing the differential gearing to something lower. If you buy the I4 and later decide you want more power it is not practical to transplant the Jeep I6 into an I4 Wrangler; it is better to sell the jeep and buy the I6 unless you plan a V8 conversion and then you need to replace the transmission with the motor as the stock transmission will not hold up.

The big question to answer before you buy is how are you going to use the jeep and what mods do you plan. After market parts are expensive and once installed you rarely get much of that money back when you go to sell. To me, depending upon the pennies in the piggy bank, it is best to find a jeep that has the most “goodies” on it for what/how you plan to use the jeep. The trick of course is to find one with the right parts that has not been rode hard and put away wet but to me the search is half the fun.

 

[DMENTAL]

Thank for the tips. Did a little recon Yes, test drive on the '97 and found these things:

Ripped soft top on passenger's side.
No rear seat or rear belts (I'm sure it came without)
Passenger seatbelt did not work, could not pull it out.
Driver seat belt was really worn on the edges.
Shocks seemed shot, lots of sway and play
Front bumper seemed a little pushed in on the passenger side
The CarFax report said it was in a minor accident (ran into a wall, minor damage to the front driver side)
Driver front seat was worn completely through on the outside seat pad (could see floor)
Emergency brake did not engage after the test drive.
I'm sure there were a couple lamps out in the turn signals or brake lights... (Fast ticking turn light)
Ripped and taped zip out window on driver's side.
Cracked windshield (one crack down the drivers sight line)
Glove box falls out when opened.
It took a number of turns before starting the engine (not familiar enough to say of that is normal)
It actually had Air Conditioning, but it was cool out so could not tell if it actually cooled, but the motor did idle faster when A/C turned on...
Transmission and clutch seemed good. Felt similar to what I remember from my '94 Dakota V6. (yes, I know probably completely different transmissions )

I did not try throwing it into 4WD for the little test spin. I'm not sure how to do that.. is that one of those that you have to stop, put in low, back up 10 ft to engage then drive, or just throw and go on the fly?

Could not tell if there were any leaks. The engine block was caked in grease and oil, so it had not been pressure washed or anything by the dealership (not sure if that was good or bad)

Seemed like they would bite if I offered 4k(sales guy basically asked if I would buy at that, but am worried that I could actually ask even less (probably 3K?)
I would definitely feel more comfortable with that price (3K) considering what I would feel need to do. Seat belt, driver seat, shocks, right away. Rear seat for the girls to ride in (a 7 and 5 year old) and rear belts, and soft top eventually. That is just to get it to a starting point before any changes I would want to make to the base!

I don't plan on going with big tires or a lift, so the i4 will probably give plenty of power. I figure if I learn to drive this whereever I wan't I would be a better driver for it! And the Willies from WWII didn't have huge engines in them and look what they could do!

Maybe I should wait and save up for when the Diesel and /or Hybrid Jeeps hit America! heh! Yeah, that will be a while though! I'm sure that is a completely different thread though!

Still mulling it over.. Not sure I'm gonna jump yet.

 

[TLCJ5]

Sounds like a lot wrong for the money they're asking & since the salesman was already talking a lower price he knows it's overpriced. Considering all that you found on a short test drive it sounds like it might be wise to "keep looking"...you know it's not the only Jeep out there. Or you could throw 'em a lowball & let em stew on it a while (maybe $2500)

 

[DMENTAL]

I like that idea!
I think I will throw them a low ball offer. "Hey, If you want to get rid on it here ya go!"
And keep lookin' too! But aren't we all always looking for the great buy on a jeep?

Thanks for the advice/suggestion!

 

[Saddle Tramp]

...... And keep lookin' too! But aren't we all always looking for the great buy on a jeep?

QUOTE]


In my world, the jeep search is never over even if you have the one(s) you want. If it’s on the side of the road with a for sale sign, I’ll pull over and have a look just to see what it’s got and Craig’s Lists is a near daily stop. It is an addiction and I’m not sure a 12 step program could help.

 

[TLCJ5]

...... And keep lookin' too! But aren't we all always looking for the great buy on a jeep?

QUOTE]


In my world, the jeep search is never over even if you have the one(s) you want. If it’s on the side of the road with a for sale sign, I’ll pull over and have a look just to see what it’s got and Craig’s Lists is a near daily stop. It is an addiction and I’m not sure a 12 step program could help.

I've got the same addiction....I'm still putting my CJ5 back together & can't help looking for my next project....:roll:

 

[floridajeeper11]

Hey DMental,

I think these guys gave you some good ideas and angles. I'm a brand new jeep owner (my first) and I've wanted to buy one for 5 yrs and I got serious on my jeep search about 8 months ago! Needless to say I've been very picky and patient. I was seriously comparing the 4 cyl to the 6 cyl for quite some time. I had myself convinced that a 4 cyl would be sufficient as a casual driver and you can read pages of reviews on jeep owners that are satisfied with their 4 cyl. I'm very happy I went with a 6 cyl even just getting around town and in and out of traffic it's nice to be able to move when you need to. My biggest point in posting is I found a 1997 straight 6 4.0L for 6k (100k). Had a mechanic check it out and it was clean and in good shape. It's a buyers market and from what I've read neither jeep seems to be something I would jump at especially from a dealer. It's not always easy to find an older jeep that hasn't been roughed up yet or hasn't been upgraded and rebuilt so much it's priced out of your range. Just be patient and keep looking if you really want a jeep there are great deals out there.

 

[Saddle Tramp]

One other thing to consider when it comes to the I4 in a Wrangler is the wind. If you live in a part of the country with strong winds such as I do, the Columbia River Gorge, and you have to drive into the wind on a highway for any distance, 40-50 mph may be all you can get with the petal to the floor. Around here 80% of the time the wind is blowing hard from either the west or the east and that big flat Wrangler windshield and squared front end does a pretty good job of slowing you down. Now going the other way with the wind to your back can be a blast.........