Free Speech

[TwistedCU]

I was a 100% Bush supporter a month ago but the possible lose of our most basic rights is in all honesty scary and I dont see how I can vote for bush again. I am real interested to hear what everyone thinks.

I can't say I was ever a 100% supporter of any politician, but I really liked the ticket Bush ran on in '00. He ran on a smaller gov't and lower taxes ticket. We got the lower taxes, but the deficit sure has made it look like bad timing. As to the smaller gov't - HA!
The outsourcing of Jobs is the final straw. Problem is I can't stand John Kerry. I do like John Mccain though. If he runs with Kerry that could swing my vote if you can believe it!

I don't like censorship of any kind. If there are rules in place to keep stuff that's inappropriate off the air and those rules are broken then someone must face the consequences. I am all for free speech and civil liberties, but public airways have always had rules as to language, etc. You can talk about anything you want but keep it clean that's how it always has been. Howard should try to change the rules if he doesn't like them, not break them and whine that it isn't fair. Just my opinion.

 

[graewulf]

just a point.. stern has broken many fcc regulations recently. There are times even now when he takes topics beyond the well established guidelines. Also, his own radio station has guidelines which he regularly ignores. And when they say something to him, he turns it up a notch, instead of backing down. I think it comes down to "everything in moderation". when there is no moderation, its time to do something about it, and someone had to set an example, he just hapened to be the most widely recognized person doing it, but he's not the only one by any means... As for smoking.. the way I look at it, you can do pretty much anything you want, so long as it does not infringe on my desire to do what I want (as in come home not smelling like an ashtray)

 

[olyeller]

snitty, i'm just curious, how many kids do you have and what are their ages?
i don't get the stern radio program, but have seen his tv show, which i assume is a videotaping of his radio show. i would definitely not want my 9-year old hearing some of the topics discussed on the show, especially the way he talks to and about women and the things he would like to with/to them.
i might add that i have no problem with an adult listening to the show, if that is the type of thing they want to listen to. i just do not want to hit the "seek" button on the radio and have this type of language pop up on the next station while i'm in the jeep with my son.

 

[Snitty]

i have no children at this point... of my own at least... but i do have young kids that i watch over a lot of the times.. including my youngest brother who has no sort of positive father, so i have taken it upon myself to take care of him and raise him to be a respectful person... and so far, i'm doing quite the job.. I also have a friend who was killed some years ago who has a 6 year old daughter who i watch over quite often... I agree that some topics that Stern discusses would be best kept away from youngsters... I also realize that you don't want to hit the scan button and "accidentally" put the stern program on... but that is no different than flipping through the television, or driving down the road and seeing some of the stuff people do, or seeing billboards that you wouldnt' want them to see... and there ARE many of them...
Two more points on that...
ONE: if you are scanning through the radio, and you hear Stern on, if you don't want them to hear it, the scan button doesn't cover itself up and lock out... and there is less than a 1% chance that when you hear it is Stern, that he'll be using a word that you don't want heard, and if you did, i guarantee that the child will NOT pick up the context of the topic.
I've been listening to Stern for a long time... he DOES NOT swear on the air, he DOES NOT endorse bad behavior, though yes, he does speak of the topics that this world does consist of. He would have been fired looong ago if he still used the material that he used to say when he was rising up to where he is. And we'll say, by chance, if a child DID happen to hear something you didn't want them to hear (unlikely if you actually realize it is Stern, who is easy to distinguish, and if you are monitoring what the child hears out of concern, you will be ready to turn it for ANYTHING, and not just Stern).. then since you have done the good job at keeping them clean from such material, it will go right over their head and will not think a thing of it. If you are scanning through, happen to land on Stern for 3 seconds, and the child hears any combination of words that the censors will allow through, the chances of them picking up and learning something corruptive are MUCH MUCH less than anything they can learn from any everyday interaction around the everyday world.
Two: If you are flipping through the television, and come upon discovery health, or the learning channel, or anything similar, there is a GREAT chance of coming upon very very graphic material... and that needs NO context, it is an image. The child has a much greater chance of getting exposed to such material this way. The same goes with music on the radio and music on television... OK yeah, television will usually give a discression warning.. but that does NO good for "scanning or flipping through". Stern is on the air at a fixed time, and is always weekday mornings, when most children would not be listening to the radio... the other controversial material in other forms of media show up at all times, including "prime time" when children WILL be paying attention.

Now a child LISTENING to a broadcast of Stern is a different story... Personally, I see no problem with his stuff... When there is a child with me while i listen to him... NEVER EVER has the child picked up on anything he said and been corrupted from the show... at 9 and 10 years old, children are learning about sex in school.. and are literally TAUGHT how to have sex... They are not taught so much that it is bad to do at their age... they are taught "if you do it... this is how, and this is what you should do to be safe"

Honestly (this may just be personal opinion, but) I believe many of the children shows these days are showing a lot that young males should not be taught... And i'm not being sarcastic here... Mr. Rogers, Sesame St., Captain Kangaroo, Howdy Duty, and all the others were GREAT shows for children to watch, educational, full of values, and fun... The shows of today, Barney, Blues Clues, Telletubbies, and many others... They are literally turning kids (mostly young boys) into wussies. Blues Clues is hosted by a metrosexual pansy and is teaching boys by example of immasculated versions of male icons. Don't get me wrong, I realize that the "nice character" values are VERY important to a child in development. And not EVERY kids show these days are like that... they are not graphic at all... but are pressing a biased lifestyle on children. Sesame St... Mr. Rogers... and the other classics, they showed a variety of lifestyles and showed much more diversity in thier educational shows. They were very unbias and taught with a very general approach. Don't agree with me if you wish not to... but this is what IS going on, I sit and watch shows with the children of my life all the time.

I look after, and spend time with a LOT of children... i love children.. i can't wait to have a hundred of my own... and the ones I do spend time with... I am the favorite "non-parental" role model of each one of them... NONE of them have turned out to have bad values, and have never been tainted by Howard Stern.

I'm not telling anyone here how to protect their children from bad material, how to raise their children, or what is right/wrong for their children... but my MAIN point here is... I've NEVER EVER seen a child grow up the wrong way because Howard Stern talks about mature topics on open radio.

 

[mingez]

As far as the smoking ban is concerned, again I feel it should be a matter of choice... driven by capitalizm.

Allow me to explain: If one owns a business, for example: a bar, the owner should be able to determine whether or not the establishment is a "smoke friendly" bar. I, as a non-smoker, have a choice to decide whether to patronize that bar or not. I might not, OR I might decide that it is worth it to be a little less comfortable just to hang out there. It is a business decision that the owner of the bar must decide upon. The question he must ask himself is: "Does the marketplace have a need for such an establishment." If non-smokers don't frequent such an establishment, he then loses that share of the marketplace. Simple as that...

Likewise a smoker may choose to patronize a "Non-smoking" restaurant. Again, the owner of the restaurant made a choice as to whether or not he wishes to risk losing his smoking clientele.

Reasons this is important:
Where do the "morality bans" end? For example: In certain states where these smoking bans exist, you can't even smoke in a tobacco shop. Businessmen can't open a business specifically geared toward smokers, such as a cigar bar.
Next, alcohol will be banned from nightclubs, and nudity will be banned from strip clubs. When does it end? It's a dangerous precedent to set.

Don't like smoke in restaurants? Don't go to those that allow it.

FYI - I don't smoke anymore either. 1 month (Yippee), but it has nothing to do with these bans, I just don't want cancer. Cancer's bad.


"Oh is my smoking bothering your 5 year old? Maybe you should take your children to one of those non-nude, smokless, drinkless strip clubs. "

 

[mingez]

BTW- I think this is an awesome thread with some very intelligent things from some very bright people. But I have come to expect that from you all. :wink:

 

[Tug-n-pull]

Early this morning I signed on. Read this post and got upon my little Soap Box and really poured out my soul on this topic. I put together several long and lushish paragraph filled with the decline of moral values and how we are not loseing our rights as Americans but rather given them away. How the "Politicaly Correct movement" is a bushel tub of crybaby garbage, How the world has been brain washed into thinking it is ok to be Gay, and that there are so many wicked things in and on the mass medias that we have become desensitized to all of the nudity, murder, sexual preversion, durg additiction, cults, and all the other ming garbage that is out there. That we are sinking lower and lower than any human episode in this worlds history. I have read here so many times that My right and your right might not be at the same levels. Ladies and Gentlemen that Dog does not hunt! The statement "We have a right to" does not make it right! All because the goverment makes a Mistake in judgement and says it is ok for a crime to be commited does not make it right to do it. The majority of the counrty is a good moral hard working group but they are letting the freaks and crazys run them up against the wall, running in fear of what will they think if we take a stand for a better way. Trying to change all that the many men and women of our great country have fought and died for because some little something don't suit them just right. I was going to tell how that I am a Christian, American, Straight Male, Pro Life, Pro Gun, Pro Family, with a strong desire to see this counrty on it's knees begging for God to forgive them for their misguided ways. To Beg God to allow them to go back to the roots that this country was founded on and that being "In God We Trust." Want to disagree then drag a dollar out your pocket and see if it is not right there in print. Go to the top of the great monument in DC and see what inscribed there pointing to the sky. Resight the pledge as we have for so many years and see if it is not under God that our country was founded. Hey I understand that I am not suppost to speak of such thing here on Jeepz or anywhere else for that matter cause it may offend someone. Light always dispells darkness. One little candell can push the darkness out of a great room. It is not politicaly correct to speak out against the homosexuals and cult worshipers, and the other small groups in the world that cause so much grief and disalliance in this great country for they all have rights. It is not correct to say to let a man join another man in wedlock is not only wrong but an abomanation gainst God. And woman to marrie a woman the same crime. and that is why I am not going to wright all that cause I am afraid I may step on some preverts toes and make em feel a little unwanted. I am much nicer than that. So all I am going to say on this matter is "Howard is not all that bad compared to many others I could name". tug

 

[Snitty]

Well put tugman... i'd like to touch on a few points...

the world has been brain washed into thinking it is ok to be Gay

I don't see that someone BEING gay is such a bad thing.. it hurts nobody... but DOES hinder reproduction and insulting to the human species... not BECAUSE they are attracted to the same sex, but that they will likely never create human life. I know a number of gay people... it doesn't bother me if a person is gay, they simple find their own gender to be attractive, big deal.. we all have different likes and dislikes... but... If a person does not act their gender... THAT bothers me to no end... I came up with an acronym for "metrosexual" males, the guys who dump cologne all over their bodies, spend 8 hours getting prettied up, won't touch a wrench, go tanning all the time, etc.... FAG... Feminine Acting Guy... Society created this terrible thing... much like what i mentioned about children shows in my last post... And it is sickening that females are finding this more and more attractive these days... Look at what sets a male and female apart, other than just what is under the clothing.. i mean the mannerism, actions, behaviors, image.... young females these days are attracted to flat chested, short haired feminine males... i dont' mean for the entire female population.. but for a majority.... its gross... take body hair/facial hair... at a slight mention, more than half of the females of america will cringe... IT IS A TRAIT OF A MAN... the high maintainence, pretty boy, scared to get dirty, clothes shopping sissy boy is overtaking the population of males... and it is sad... what happened to the MAN? Again... if a man is attracted to men, and if a woman is attracted to women, fine... its something they can't do anything about... but it doesn't make it right to divorce yourself from being the gender you were born

Hey I understand that I am not suppost to speak of such thing here on Jeepz or anywhere else for that matter cause it may offend someone

If you offended anyone with your statements, then THEY have a problem... HOW can someone possibly be offended by someone simply saying what THEY believe? There are many many people who don't agree with me on things... Some who may not even like me... good... big deal... they can publicize that all they want, they can do anything they want to express that fact... it won't offend me, they have their opinions, and that is neither my fault nor theirs... but a line is crossed when they act on it... if someone attacks me for a difference in view, or makes me feel that i am not allowed to have a view, or expresses our differences in derogatory manners.. then they have offended me, and have opened a two way door.. which will first be blitzkrieged with reason, to better understand their position... and hopefully not, but possibly countered with a hostile defense.

"Howard is not all that bad compared to many others I could name"

The nutshell form of what I was saying

 

[Snitty]

and yes.. mingez... it IS an interesting thread.. i love it... no such thing as too much debate... we will never know where we stand ourselves, without knowing where others are around us

 

[graewulf]

"Oh is my smoking bothering your 5 year old? Maybe you should take your children to one of those non-nude, smokless, drinkless strip clubs. "

Sure, that works... until about 5 years ago it was almost impossible to locate that shich you describe... until people startted pushing for non-smoking in publicly used facilities, it was very tough to finda "non-smoking" anything... they all had a "smoking section" - like carlin said.. isn't that sort of like a "peeing section" in a pool?

 

[64Jeeper]

i'm a big fan of stern... he is NOT indecent

And yet, half the stuff he talks about on his show we can't say here because the Mods will censor it. (and rightly so) <stir stir stir> :lol:

That is because we, the "society of Jeepz," decided to have it that way. Not because it is actually indecent... the rules that apply to the country don't apply to a private club, which this is. <stirring continued> :lol:

And this is exactly why I choose not to post here much anymore, because a lot of you people on here are nothing more than hipocritical religious sheeple.

I never thought in a million years that making a post about Janet Jackson would get half of you all flustered, and your panties in a bunch. I only was asking if anyone had seen it.

Also with all the comments about Howard, it just shows me that this country would rather be told what to listen to and watch. This is supposed to be a FREE country for people to do and say what they want. (within limits, I realize that much)

Thats all I have to say, and with that, I'm outta here. You can respond to my post if you like, but I won't be back to reply, so flame away if you must.

Mods, feel free to erase my membership...

later...

 

[Snitty]

haha... what's that all about? I don't understand when people preach about freedom, and get upset when people excercise their right to argue against those freedoms... i really can't understand why he got so upset just there... i agree with him that many people are too uptight, not here.. but everywhere... you can't just LEAVE everything because of that... what sort of "freedom" is it if people can't say "i don't like what you said"... no need to run off... even if everyone here disagreed one very aspect of every topic, and were always in debate... i still love this place, and will continue to come back for its initial purpose... to discuss jeeps... ANY situation where people interact, there will be diversity in opinions.. and anyone would be a fraction-minded brain-dead retard to expect otherwise... i happen to love the diverse discussions here

 

[Tug-n-pull]

hipocritical religious sheeple> tug :mrgreen:

 

[LadyJeepFreak]

:lol: LOL talk about panties in a bunch. His are alllllllllllllllll knotted up!
lol

I can't see how open discussion of these sorts of things relate to what Glass just said, although I see nothing wrong with him sharing his opinion. Pushing all of us into one sterotype isn't something I'd agree with.

I think these threads are great too, whether I agree or disagree. You can only talk so much Jeeping. I think the main thing is alot of people don't keep an OPEN mind to others opinions. They are just opinions or ideals, and don't have to be the same as yours just because they are voiced. Would'nt we all bore each other the death if we were the same person inside?

I wouldn't work myself up to hate jeepz as a jeeping society just because we have conversations that show sometimes strong opinions. At the end of the day, were still here for the same thing....Jeeping. As much jeep talk goes on here (usually) than non jeep talk.

On the trail, were still just the person next to the next guy and I don't think too much of these type of conversations come up there so it's all good. lol Even if they did, do jeepers wear panties? LOL

Keep on Jeeping.
Lady :roll:

 

[bryanjeep]

If you don't want to hear it, just turn it off. I personally like Howard Stern. He is funny and wakes me up on days I don't want to be up 5:00 in the morning. I sure would rather listen to Howard over some boring family talk show or the news.

We don't need to get upset here. Everybody has the right to live their own life.

Later,
Bryan

 

[TwistedCU]

That guy didn't just ask if we saw it he posted a pic, right? Big difference.

Tug your post was right on. PC is the shame of our country.

 

[olyeller]

snitty, no problem with you, or anyone else listening to stern, again i just don't want the kids to hear some of his stuff - you'd be surprised what kids pick up that you would think they're ignoring.

also, it may be a difference of culture/geographical location. i've never been to new york and have no idea how people there talk or interact with others, but i have been to washington, oregon, idaho, colorado, california, utah, and nevada. california was the most surprising in that the "f" word was used like we'd say "hello" or "thank you" here. others of the western states that i've been to have surprised me too in the language used in public. again, this is just common to the culture of the area and not a big deal to me, just not what i'm used to.

here in the south, a lot of us do use profanity and i do not comdemn it, if its your thing. i use it sometimes, so i can't be the "pot calling the kettle black" and condemn it. in the area where i live, though most people are careful about who is in the area hearing what is said. i, personally, respect both of my grandmothers (or any other old lady) too much to use profanity in front of them. its just not the way i was raised. i also would not use profanity in a restaurant or other public place within earshot of children or ladies. it was in a restaurant in california where i was given my first "dose" of california culture.

at the hunting camp, where its just the "boys" pretty much anything goes, depending on what limits you set on yourself.

reading back over this, i guess that what i'm trying to say is that everything has its time and place and that personal judgement and possibly even location can help determine what is appropriate. i know that my kids are probably more naive in the ways of the world than those in more populous areas, but they are normal kids in southwest georgia.

to give you an idea about my kid's naivety, i'll give you an example. my 9 year old got in trouble at school a couple of weeks ago and i went to talk to his teacher. she said that he was making hand signs at another student. i asked what he'd done, figuring he'd flipped someone off. she made the hand sign and i didn't know what it was. i asked my 13 year old nephew what it was and he said that it meant "you're gay". my son and i had a discussion about his behavior that day and i asked him if he even knew what gay meant. his reply was "no, sir". encountering homosexuality is just not an everyday occurance in our town.

i TOTALLY agree with you about the kids shows. i'm not even crazy about some of the stuff on Sesame St. i have a 9 year old and a 3 year old. the 9 year old is too old for the kids shows you mentioned and the 3 year old does not get to watch them. my kids do not watch Blues Clues or The Wiggles or any other shows with the emasculated male hosts you described because i hate them. just for good measure, on sunday mornings before church, we watch hunting and fishing shows on ESPN and OLN. i also take both of them hunting and fishing and to ride their go cart outside. the 9 year old killed his first squirrell about couple of months ago and i'm hoping he'll get his first turkey this season. not raising any sissy boys here!


notice that in the above post, i mentioned both using profanity and going to church as things that i do. not to be one of the "hypocritical christians" that glass79cj5dude referred to, i just want any doubters to know that i'm working on things and that forgiveness can be asked for and received. :mrgreen:

 

[TwistedCU]

And this is exactly why I choose not to post here much anymore...

Thats all I have to say, and with that, I'm outta here. You can respond to my post if you like, but I won't be back to reply, so flame away if you must.

Mods, feel free to erase my membership...

later...

Guess it all goes back to choice doesn't it? There's plenty of forums that live for that stuff and I guess if it's too much to ask for you to contain yourself and maintain a little common decency then go ahead and post elsewhere. It's a shame, you were and still would be a very welcomed member.

 

[XJNick]

Thats all I have to say, and with that, I'm outta here. You can respond to my post if you like, but I won't be back to reply, so flame away if you must.

Mods, feel free to erase my membership...

later...

Umm.. Right. :?
Why do people always have to make a big scene when they leave :roll:

-Nick :!:

 

[mingez]

"Oh is my smoking bothering your 5 year old? Maybe you should take your children to one of those non-nude, smokless, drinkless strip clubs. "

Sure, that works... until about 5 years ago it was almost impossible to locate that shich you describe... until people startted pushing for non-smoking in publicly used facilities, it was very tough to finda "non-smoking" anything... they all had a "smoking section" - like carlin said.. isn't that sort of like a "peeing section" in a pool?

Well, since PC sucks...

True, but there are limits to it's appropriateness. Mind you, I don't like smoke. You just can't take such things to extremes. It's not a black or white issue. There are areas were smoking needs to be allowed, ie a smoke shop. Just like nudity has it's place, ie stripclubs, art galleries.

If I want to, I should be able to open a facility where smoking is allowed. The consequence, is that you won't patronize my establishment.

As for the Gay thing,
Most gay people I know are better people than most straight people I know. Being a procreator doesn't pre-dispose anyone to being a good person. How many indecent people do you know with kids? The number is too large to say.

And remember, I agree that political correctness is lame. That being said, the word "fag" is to gays as the "N word" is to African Americans. (Which BTW- both those words are far more offensive than anything Janet Jackson ever did) So, by Bush's logic, that should be a censored word. (let's see if that word get's erased)

I must say that all of the anti-gay sentiment on this board scares me. I am NOT gay. (Not that there's anything wrong with that) :lol:
But I will say that that sentiment is well on it's way out, as well it should be. To me, that way of thinking is "WRONG" and "IMMORALE". But, I understand that there is no universal wrong or right. And that many may have a differing veiw about it, and that's okay.

As for the Jerry Falwell Zombies, "hypocrit-osis" is a disease the Religious Right is frought with. And they are the scaryest people on earth. Not everyone believes in the same stuff they believe. But they will never understand that... because their extremist conservative beliefs take away their ablity to see things from multiple perspectives. Why? Because those who disagree with their way of thinking are...."Wrong" :::shudder:::

:!: Thanks a lot Snitty, now I'm gonna throw away ALL of my cologne. Where's my latte? :lol: :lol: :lol: