They're closing down our trails!!!
- Thread starter Jeeper84
- Start date
Tug-n-pull
New member
1045884
Tree Hugers are able to close our trails for the same reason the non Christians are able to change our counrtys original out looks of "In God We Trust" they are the wheel makeing the most noise. Anti Trail Riding Eco Extremest are groupeing together in defence of what they believe. They are useing an approach of save the Planet. The only way we are going to be able to combat such a great defence is to concive a defence for the right to Wheel just as strong. There is where it gets tuff. The old I want to take my 350 hp jeep with very aggresive treades and power up the hills scareing little animals half out of their wits just don't hunt anymore. I know I sound as though I am on the wrong side here but I am just speaking the truth good or bad. Take the bikers as example The bad boys of the 1960's are now respected why? They saw to preserve the right to ride they had to change they way they were seen by others. Now they ride for chairty, and dont break out window and trash bars every where they go. They still ride but some how they are now good bikers and not bad bikers. I am not saying we are bad jeepers just not respected as we should be. If it walks and talks like a Duck is a Duck. Man what a soap box who am I Dr, Phill or something! All I am saying is to beat the tree hugers at their own game is to find common ground with the ones that don't 4x4 as a sport and promote ouselves as an asset to the public, community, and the general good of man. Me I like scareing the wit out of the little animals and powering up the hills. Sorry to be so long winded Tug
[addsig]
Tree Hugers are able to close our trails for the same reason the non Christians are able to change our counrtys original out looks of "In God We Trust" they are the wheel makeing the most noise. Anti Trail Riding Eco Extremest are groupeing together in defence of what they believe. They are useing an approach of save the Planet. The only way we are going to be able to combat such a great defence is to concive a defence for the right to Wheel just as strong. There is where it gets tuff. The old I want to take my 350 hp jeep with very aggresive treades and power up the hills scareing little animals half out of their wits just don't hunt anymore. I know I sound as though I am on the wrong side here but I am just speaking the truth good or bad. Take the bikers as example The bad boys of the 1960's are now respected why? They saw to preserve the right to ride they had to change they way they were seen by others. Now they ride for chairty, and dont break out window and trash bars every where they go. They still ride but some how they are now good bikers and not bad bikers. I am not saying we are bad jeepers just not respected as we should be. If it walks and talks like a Duck is a Duck. Man what a soap box who am I Dr, Phill or something! All I am saying is to beat the tree hugers at their own game is to find common ground with the ones that don't 4x4 as a sport and promote ouselves as an asset to the public, community, and the general good of man. Me I like scareing the wit out of the little animals and powering up the hills. Sorry to be so long winded Tug
MudderChuck
New member
1045886
They close trails down for various reasons. Over use, noise, racers, danger, trash and irresponsible people who leave gates open. Sometimes because of fire danger or quiet areas for game to reproduce and such.
Large tracts of land get closed down for purley selfish reasons on many occasions. If you see a couple of miles of no parking signs, blocked service roads, gated access roads and no-tresspassing signs. It´s often a person with connections and an agenda. Maybe a house or cabin, in the middle of a couple of sections of forest, who only really owns the lot the cabin sits on. I´ve seen small mountain ranges effectively controled in this manner, the only legal access is, to have someone drop you off with a back pack and pick you up later or hike in and out. Of course there are the HORSE BACK RIDERS, which never seem to encounter many resrictions. Much of this is federal or state land, effectively controled and access restricted by people with the connections, to get there signs (often illegal) enforced. I´ve seen overgrazing sheep do more erosion damage than I´ve ever seen off road driving do. Ditto with open pit mining. Ditto for logging. Many of the closures to off road driving, arn´t for the reasons stated.
I´m a volunteer game manager, I do game counts, check on the health, and track wounded game on about 4000 acres of mixed woods and farmland. I get alot of four wheeling in, especially in the winter. There are ways around land closures. Used to do trail surveys for the county fire department, another way. Getting a permit is often as simple as asking the land owner, or being friendly with the forestry service. A wood cutting permit, will get you a lot of good four wheeling in. Cost a few dollars and is usually good for months. Just a few ideas.[addsig]
They close trails down for various reasons. Over use, noise, racers, danger, trash and irresponsible people who leave gates open. Sometimes because of fire danger or quiet areas for game to reproduce and such.
Large tracts of land get closed down for purley selfish reasons on many occasions. If you see a couple of miles of no parking signs, blocked service roads, gated access roads and no-tresspassing signs. It´s often a person with connections and an agenda. Maybe a house or cabin, in the middle of a couple of sections of forest, who only really owns the lot the cabin sits on. I´ve seen small mountain ranges effectively controled in this manner, the only legal access is, to have someone drop you off with a back pack and pick you up later or hike in and out. Of course there are the HORSE BACK RIDERS, which never seem to encounter many resrictions. Much of this is federal or state land, effectively controled and access restricted by people with the connections, to get there signs (often illegal) enforced. I´ve seen overgrazing sheep do more erosion damage than I´ve ever seen off road driving do. Ditto with open pit mining. Ditto for logging. Many of the closures to off road driving, arn´t for the reasons stated.
I´m a volunteer game manager, I do game counts, check on the health, and track wounded game on about 4000 acres of mixed woods and farmland. I get alot of four wheeling in, especially in the winter. There are ways around land closures. Used to do trail surveys for the county fire department, another way. Getting a permit is often as simple as asking the land owner, or being friendly with the forestry service. A wood cutting permit, will get you a lot of good four wheeling in. Cost a few dollars and is usually good for months. Just a few ideas.[addsig]
bigTlilODD
New member
1045893
This issue goes far beyond us 4X'ers. Mountain bikers are facing the same thing. For some reason certain groups, like the Sierra club, think they're the only ones allowed in the forrest or anywhere outside of the city. Here in Albuquerque I've yet to see any hiker or runner pick up trash and/or clean up the trails that they use. I see so many mountain bikers and 4X'ers clean up and fix up the trails. I understand part of their argument, that 4Xing scares away the wildlife. It does because it's loud, but it's NOT killing them! They say it scares the animals off, but where do they go? Ummm, just around the hill til we're gone, then they come back. How do I know this, because I still see them when I go back. As far as do they need to be shut down? Well, sometimes yes. This is a tough question. They need to be closed at times to let the land heal, but they usually move the trail over. Yes the land needs to heal, that's why farmers don't plant on parts of their land. What's funny to me, is that the enviromentalists do more damage than the rest of us. By not allowing fire breaks, fires have devasted 100's of thousands of acres, that could have been prevented. In Los Alamos, NM there was almost a major enviromental catastrophe, because the enviromentalists would not allow fire breaks in the forrest, and the fire burned right up to the PLUTONIUM storage area! This probably could have been prevented, if the enviromental laws were relaxed!!! Does 4Xing cause damage? YES! Does Rain cause damage? Yes! Does lightning cause damage? YES! Hey look, mother nature causes damage too. Now some will say, that because mother nature does it, that doesn't mean we can. Well, it doesn't mean that they should keep us out. I wonder how many discoveries where made by someone doing some off-roading, that would not have been found otherwise. I think certain enviromentalists forget that we're apart of the world too, and that we have a right to EVERY bit of land that "animals" do. Also people target the few that do the bad things, instead of the many that don't. I've yet to see a 4X'er do intentional damage to the land, unlike the enviromentalists that rig up nail bombs to try to kill loggers, or string fishing line across trails to hurt mountain bikers.[addsig]
This issue goes far beyond us 4X'ers. Mountain bikers are facing the same thing. For some reason certain groups, like the Sierra club, think they're the only ones allowed in the forrest or anywhere outside of the city. Here in Albuquerque I've yet to see any hiker or runner pick up trash and/or clean up the trails that they use. I see so many mountain bikers and 4X'ers clean up and fix up the trails. I understand part of their argument, that 4Xing scares away the wildlife. It does because it's loud, but it's NOT killing them! They say it scares the animals off, but where do they go? Ummm, just around the hill til we're gone, then they come back. How do I know this, because I still see them when I go back. As far as do they need to be shut down? Well, sometimes yes. This is a tough question. They need to be closed at times to let the land heal, but they usually move the trail over. Yes the land needs to heal, that's why farmers don't plant on parts of their land. What's funny to me, is that the enviromentalists do more damage than the rest of us. By not allowing fire breaks, fires have devasted 100's of thousands of acres, that could have been prevented. In Los Alamos, NM there was almost a major enviromental catastrophe, because the enviromentalists would not allow fire breaks in the forrest, and the fire burned right up to the PLUTONIUM storage area! This probably could have been prevented, if the enviromental laws were relaxed!!! Does 4Xing cause damage? YES! Does Rain cause damage? Yes! Does lightning cause damage? YES! Hey look, mother nature causes damage too. Now some will say, that because mother nature does it, that doesn't mean we can. Well, it doesn't mean that they should keep us out. I wonder how many discoveries where made by someone doing some off-roading, that would not have been found otherwise. I think certain enviromentalists forget that we're apart of the world too, and that we have a right to EVERY bit of land that "animals" do. Also people target the few that do the bad things, instead of the many that don't. I've yet to see a 4X'er do intentional damage to the land, unlike the enviromentalists that rig up nail bombs to try to kill loggers, or string fishing line across trails to hurt mountain bikers.[addsig]
MudderChuck
New member
1045914
Well said Todd. How many times have you seen a road cut through the desert running twenty miles as straight as an arrow, that ends at an old trailer and a pile of trash. Some guy bought a claim, got hooked up with some federal improvement plan, and had a road cut, at taxpayers expense. The road displaced more dirt than I could with a Jeep in many lifetimes. The access road is often gated, four wheeling( free wheeling) in the open desert is forbidden (but I can´t really see what running in the washes would hurt). The guy with the claim, effectively controls about four hundred square miles of desert.
The tree huggers have effectively shot themselves in the foot on numerous occasions. And there stated possitions are often just an arguement that sounds good, but has very little to do with reality or right and wrong (lawyers).
There is one area in south central California, that had (someone figured) about 5000 miles of four wheel and bike trails (North of Gorman). It bordered a nature area, a National forest and was part of a State park. The Sierra Club got the State to expand the Nature preserve to include the State lands used by four wheelers and such and another peice of State lands that where non-allocated (often hunted). Supposidly to protect the California Condor. Hunting and driving in the area was strictly forbidden. Well to make a long story short, after the hunters left, the Coyotes, Foxes, Havalinas and Wild Russian Boar (can´t figure what they have to do with the natural balance in California wildlife). Pretty much wipped out the California Condor and the few that where left, burned in a wild fire, nobody could effectively fight, because most of the trails had overgrown with Mesquite bushes. So much for protecting the wildlife, they did, not good but OK for years, until the nature freaks protected them to exstinction.
[addsig]
Well said Todd. How many times have you seen a road cut through the desert running twenty miles as straight as an arrow, that ends at an old trailer and a pile of trash. Some guy bought a claim, got hooked up with some federal improvement plan, and had a road cut, at taxpayers expense. The road displaced more dirt than I could with a Jeep in many lifetimes. The access road is often gated, four wheeling( free wheeling) in the open desert is forbidden (but I can´t really see what running in the washes would hurt). The guy with the claim, effectively controls about four hundred square miles of desert.
The tree huggers have effectively shot themselves in the foot on numerous occasions. And there stated possitions are often just an arguement that sounds good, but has very little to do with reality or right and wrong (lawyers).
There is one area in south central California, that had (someone figured) about 5000 miles of four wheel and bike trails (North of Gorman). It bordered a nature area, a National forest and was part of a State park. The Sierra Club got the State to expand the Nature preserve to include the State lands used by four wheelers and such and another peice of State lands that where non-allocated (often hunted). Supposidly to protect the California Condor. Hunting and driving in the area was strictly forbidden. Well to make a long story short, after the hunters left, the Coyotes, Foxes, Havalinas and Wild Russian Boar (can´t figure what they have to do with the natural balance in California wildlife). Pretty much wipped out the California Condor and the few that where left, burned in a wild fire, nobody could effectively fight, because most of the trails had overgrown with Mesquite bushes. So much for protecting the wildlife, they did, not good but OK for years, until the nature freaks protected them to exstinction.
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